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-   -   Lets talk about Paybacks !!!!!!! (

Fish Picker 08-05-2004 07:55 PM

Rat perhaps I underestimated you have ya ever eaten a mako heart ????

Fish Picker 08-05-2004 07:56 PM

BTW this thread was about Paybacks please lets stay on that topic.

hayswalt 08-05-2004 08:40 PM

What topic? You can't talk about rec paybacks without better, on time numbers- period. If we had better numbers, me thinks the rec industry would be in for a real JOLT- IMHO.


Captain Tony Bogan 08-05-2004 09:22 PM

Walt, I agree with the first half of your statement, but not the second.

In my opinion real numbers can never hurt us (although I guess you are right that some people will be surprised at the "real" numbers in certain instances)

Fact is if we were, for example, landing far more fish than thought, that is not necessarily a bad thing, for anyone. Know why? because, for example, in a fishery done with VPA, the only way to catch more, if the biomass is still growing, is for more fish to be there. You cannot catch what doesn't exist.

Also, if the fisheries are considered to be recovering or close to recovered, because the biomass numbers are approaching the half way or better mark, and we are actually landing more fish than anticipated, it is a strong argument that the biomass numnbers are underestimated. After all, if we were significantly harvesting beyond what was thought, according to the current numbers we'd be overfishing. If the biomass numbers keep coming back larger and larger than it raises a whole lot of questions about the accuracy of those numbers.

Now would it be all good if we were found to be overharvesting? No, of course not. But I think you get the point.

Fact is real numbers can never hurt. They will either show there is not a problem (or the problem is not as bad as originally thought) or that there is a problem, and now we can fix it, which in the long run helps everyone.

Picker, I am not sure what your response to me and paybacks have to do with each other?

Paybacks for the commercial sector (according to te courts, not me) are specifically designed as a deterrant/punishment. The reason the commercial sector is made to payback is because they have, to a large degree, the ability to adjust their behavior in-season to account for landings that may be approaching or surpassing a yearly or period quota. It was the timliness (and relative accuracy) of those numbers that allowed the courts to justify paybacks.

The recreational sector has no such ability. (see my last post for an example)

What does greed et. al. have to do with that?


hayswalt 08-06-2004 02:43 AM

Speaking of real numbers, found the following book:

Improving the Collection, Management, and Use of Marine Fisheries Data (2000)

Talk about complicated! It's hard to read, but can be found here:

BennyB 08-06-2004 11:02 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by River Rat:
Ragman will never know the thrill of the kill on the high seas.

The lawn chair and bucket just dont cut it.

That Tuna fought the good fight and died to feed the many. Bent knows what I'm sayin'

I love thr taste of still beating Tuna hearts in the morning.... tastes like VICTORY! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For the record, that is my cooler behind Mr. Ragman in that picture. The lawnchair is all his. Who can blame a guy for taking a nap after a feast like that though?

Mr. River Rat, you are a Tuna Slayer!!!

It looked like a bloody good time!

captadamnj 08-09-2004 09:55 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I was under the impression that your sector files FVTR with NMFS. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The majority of Rec. fishermen are NOT required to fill them out. And in the party/charterboat sector, only those that hold federal fishing permits (EEZ) fill them out. Even when they are filled out, they are not required to be "postmarked" until the 15th of the following month. By the time they are received and processed, they can already be 2+ months out of date.

BENTROD 08-10-2004 06:40 AM

FISHPICKER,,just wait soon when n.j is found outa complience and all the recs are going to get paid back all right,,, WHEN STRIPED BASS WILL BE AN OPEN TARGET, with no quota or trip limit. it will be one of those things that will be in court for a while all the time well be running the dock outa cardboard..with striped bass..aaaaahhh isnt that a pleasant thought, first thing in the a.m,, maybee my fish dealer will put his arm around my back , AND SAY BENTROD,,, IT IS TIME TO FEED THE WORLD WITH STRIPED BASS

BENTROD 08-10-2004 06:43 AM

and then i would probably say to him.... MR FISH DEALER, are you sure your going to have enough boxs, he would say ,, dont worry about that BENT,,,, more cardboard is ON THE WAY

River Rat 08-10-2004 11:01 AM

Yo Bent,

I got some real nice land I can sell ya cheap in Florida. We can look at it at low tide buddy!

You really think you'll ever sell a Striped Bass in NJ?

I want the truth!

BENTROD 08-10-2004 02:37 PM

RAT,,, i know striped bass is kinda like the cats meow in your book and all the rest of you all,,,, BUT SORRY RAT,,, this has become personal to me... when you all CHOKE ON THE GREED, like whats coming up when you all are found outa complience,,, i want you to be able to sleep better at night just knowing that BENTROD is going on a major KI@@@@@ SP@@@, ONE with an attitude,,,, im even going to buy a brand new bull-line just for this...because when they shut down the recreational striped bass fisherie, and then theres going to be that loophole which enables me to load the boat with stripers... im licking my chops as we speak... i MAKE ONE PROMISE,,,, I WILL DO MY JOB WELL

BENTROD 08-10-2004 02:38 PM


hayswalt 08-10-2004 03:03 PM

Dream on BentRod- I'll bet you 2 gooses that you'll never be allowed to commercially fish for striped bass in the State of NJ in your lifetime! And, if you do, there's a good chance you'll have to collect from my estate

BENTROD 08-10-2004 03:09 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HaysWalt:
Dream on BentRod- I'll bet you 2 gooses that you'll never be allowed to commercially fish for striped bass in the State of NJ in your lifetime! And, if you do, there's a good chance you'll have to collect from my estate <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>NO WAY WALT,,, were talking MANAGEMENT,,, ha -ha right?YOU ALL ARE OUTA COMPLIENCE VERY SOON,,,,, and here comes the LOOPHOLE.....that loophole is going to drive me to buy a brand new bull-line, AND ALSO BUY SUPERFLY A NEW PAIR OF KORKERS,,,, his old ones are going to have a hole in them on the back -side

Joe 08-10-2004 06:30 PM

Why would Commercial or Recreational fishers want to fish a spiecies to no more. I really don't understand. Sure I feel bad about the Comms being restricted on what they fish, but if it came down to it, I would gladly give up my rights to catch Stripers for as long as it was needed to restablish them. The way this thread is going it almost seems like wiping out the Striper population is an exceptable thing.

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