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shurbet 10-22-2012 11:05 AM

Boat fisherman
Hi Frank

I would like to know why you show so much disdain and animosity toward boat fisherman,you went as far as to call it cheating. I get the impression your not kidding.

"catch'em up"

Frank Daignault 10-22-2012 11:43 AM

Re: Boat fisherman
This is a surfcasting site and I am a surfcasting writer. Of course, and you are suppose to understand that here, it is an unkind generalization which tends to paint all boatmen with the same brush. Try to understand the differences between fishing the beach and boat fishing which I am sure you are well acquinted. In any given year there will be 10 fish over 50 pounds caught on the striper coast for each one in the striper surf. This has held true the entire time such fish have been counted. You are supposed to understand, as the rest of us do, that the generalization has exceptions, like yourself, Jason Colby, Ray Jobin and many more. Keep in mind as well that people fishing in boats get there a lot sooner than those of us who walk the beaches.

I have been fishing for bass for over 60 years. Like you, I have seen a lot of things re behaviour, sentiment, failure, pride and resourcefullness. All my beach life I have watched the dismal failure of surfcasters who out of frustration acquired a boat and once clear of the shore, became high-liners. They couldn't get the clapp in a Panama whorehouse when they were on the beach but now that they are on their boat bailing more stripers than most surfmen could ever imagine, they strut. It is a phenom that I have witnessed all my life. There are things in the world that have their place. And this is and it would be inappropriate for us to advocate boat fishing for stripers, though I think we have gone out of our way to welcome those among us who make their own choices. That boat fishing is cheating was voiced first by prominent surfman and author Alberto Knie, more in the spirit of humor than any true hostility. And in that same spirit I supported and laughed about it. We do not plan to change. :wave:

lagoonguy 10-22-2012 06:53 PM

Re: Boat fisherman
Well now. Perhaps we all should take a deep breath and then take a look at the table of contents to this whole forum called Striper Surf. Unless I read it wrong, we have eight of nine forums not addressing surf casting for the rest of us non purists. Take a look:
1)Main Forum in which everything is discussed
2)Ask Frank
3)Kayak Fishing
4)Boating Forum
5)Flyfishing the Salt
6)Charter & Party Boats
9)Buy & Sell

Frank, I agree with Shurbet, you show great disdain and contempt for anyone who posts anything about fishing from a boat. That makes me feel uncomfortable and sometimes unwanted here. I'm sure it makes others feel the same too - especially the newbys you seek to help.

Sometimes your treatment of non purist surf fishermen takes me back to the 50's and 60's when many popular outdoor writers had no use for anyone who didn't fish with a fly rod and fished for anything other than trout or Atlantic salmon.

I'm 77 years old and have been saltwater fishing for about 67 of those years. I cut my teeth in saltwater surf fishing and always have maintained a great love for it. I was fortunate in that I nearly always had access to or owned a small boat and I fished from it. Over my 67 years fishing, about half the time it has been surfcasting, the other half from boats, I derive equal pleasure from each. I don't feel one method is superior to the other.

You are an acknowledged expert in the surf. I've known you for years and respect and like you for those unique skills. Over the years I have arranged for you to speak befor a couple of sportsman and conservation groups because you always brought a message that everyone could learn from and enjoy.

In my 67 years experience I have never felt that either group, surf fishermen or boat fishermen was anything but equal to the other - in every way. There are googans in the surf and in the boats. There are very outstanding sportsmen in both group. There are conservationists in both groups. There are rotten dirty bastards in both groups. There are cheats, liars, frauds and bullys in both groups.

Perhaps you should have the name of your forum changed to "ASK FRANK ABOUT SURF FISHING". If you feel as strongly as you do, have the monitors delete anything about boat fishing that's posted. After all, there are eight other forums on that cover just about everything else. Or, make a sustained effort not to denigrate posts by boat fishermen or those of us who enjoy different methods equally.

ragman 10-22-2012 10:11 PM

Re: Boat fisherman
I guess I can step in here...;)

As far as the original question I believe it was just wondering why Frank has the opinion he does of boat fishing. He answered it quite well, and also threw in some humor as he always does with his explaination.
As far as the points Bill brings up...
Yes, this site has numerous sections pertaining to more than surfcasting, as any fishing board does. You can find just about anyhing pertaining to fishing at that might interest you. You find your niche, and enjoy it, read whatever you like. :)
That being said, Frank's forum is a place for folks to ask questions of an accomplished surfcaster for striped bass. He has his opinions, like the rest of us do. Yes, striper fishing goes across different lines (boat, surf, pier, etc), but I think folks come to his forum for surfcasting. They might not realize at first that his love is surfcasting, but they get the idea pretty quick. I cant recall a single time he made somone feel unwelcome, unless that person said or did something to bring that on themselves. He is a pretty honest guy. ;)
I welcome any criticism of my post, as always...:)

Bob D'Amico 10-23-2012 02:43 AM

Re: Boat fisherman
I wish that everyone who reads this forum would have the opportunity to sit down with Frank and Joyce Daignault with a glass of vino. I guarantee that you would not only learn a lot about fishing, hunting and life in general but you would be in stitches.

What makes this forum so popular is Frank. Not for nothing he calls himself "Mr. Smarty Pants" and I know from hundreds of phone calls over the years that visitors appreciate, not simply his humor but his writing style and willingness to share his knowledge and experience.

Show me a man on any other fishing website that has shared more information and helped more fishermen over the last +13 years! As of this moment Frank has made 23,531 posts, that's 1,1810 per year or 34.8 per week! And I should add that over those 13 years very, very few posts have been deleted, far less than the Main Forum or any of the regional fishing forums. In fact Frank does not delete anything on his own, if there is a post that he finds troublesome he will ask Rags or the other moderators to review it for their opinion. Trust me in the early days of "Ask Frank" he was "targeted" and took a lot of abuse from men who are jealous of his success, as a fisherman and author. Once they realized that he wouldn't "take the bait," they went away.

Shurbet's post was meant to be "provocative," I think Frank's response was excellent and it certainly made me laugh...

They couldn't get the clapp in a Panama whorehouse

Rmarsh 10-23-2012 05:58 AM

Re: Boat fisherman
I think Frank has a right to his opinion, just as the rest of us do. I always get a chuckle at his jabs at boat fishermen. I love fishing from shore, but also from kayaks, boats or whatever, and I don't get offended if Frank does not approve.

I don't think Frank needs to be politically correct, or worry about what folks may think, rather I would prefer his unfiltered, brutally honest way of getting his point accross. I don't always agree with him, but thoroughly enjoy reading his take on things.

P.S. My boat is under constuction and will be ready for next season!

MAD 6 10-23-2012 06:48 AM

Re: Boat fisherman
The thing that is so great about this forum is that it is a "Surf Casting" first and foremost(at least that is how I look at it) I have never fished from a boat and I really don't care to hear about how many fish guys catch from their boats. I thi k most guys who sign up to this site feel the same - I don't know why anyone would feel uncomfortable with that, the title of the Forum is Striper Surf and you would think people would be aware of that from the go...

My favorite Frank line: "I would rather see my sister in a whorehouse than my brother in a boat". I only hate boat fisherman because I don't have a boat, I have been catching so few fish from the surf this year that I am considering buying a boat or maybe a jet ski. I love the purity of surf fishing but its getting pretty boring not catching anything...

Frank Daignault 10-23-2012 08:55 AM

Re: Boat fisherman
Thanks for the support but support should really not be necessary. A majority of our members understand that this is a surf forum and I was chosen by Bob D'Amico over 13 years ago because I am a surf writer. Along with keeping my mandate over this striper surf forum, I have gotten used to, even gotten good at, spotting the people who have or are most likely to watch for me to trip so they can say that I can't walk.

The anti-boat thing was first whispered among surfmen right after WWII so I didn't invent it. Editor of SWS, Frank Woolner, championed the disdain surfmen expressed over boat fishing and Woolner did both. Some of the people who come here ought to lighten up. Boats? Surf? who gives a rat's butt! As for Alberto saying it first, "that boat fishing is cheating", I only wish that I had said it first, not because I seek to snipe at our members, but because it fits in my schict. :wave:

Merlin 10-23-2012 01:13 PM

Re: Boat fisherman
Why do I look at these things in a simpler way?: It is Frank's ball field and Frank's ball and bat so he can make the rules. If you do not like it hit the road!.

Jon006 10-23-2012 01:27 PM

Re: Boat fisherman
For me theres something gratifying about doing it the hard way. With todays electronics and a good chart I could easily put myself on more bass than I've ever seen on shore. It really can be that easy. Heck spend the right amount of coin on your electronics and you can see birds working on radar...

Kroc 10-23-2012 06:33 PM

Re: Boat fisherman

Originally Posted by Jon006 (Post 2377271)
For me theres something gratifying about doing it the hard way. With todays electronics and a good chart I could easily put myself on more bass than I've ever seen on shore. It really can be that easy. Heck spend the right amount of coin on your electronics and you can see birds working on radar...

Exactly. Boatmen have always had a huge and distinctive advantage over the surf rats. With todays technology, the gap has widened even further. No matter how you try to defend it, catching fish on a boat is not a great accomplishment. I don't hate boat fisherman, but to me its a completely different sport/hobby and not even remotely similar to what we as surfmen do.
I respectfully disagree with the gentleman who said surf fisherman and boat fisherman are equal in every way. I'm not saying one group is superior to the other but the equipment, tactics, mindset, physical demands ect.... make these two groups COMPLETELY different in every way.

Jon006 10-23-2012 07:56 PM

Re: Boat fisherman
Not to mention when you hook a big girl on shore you generally cant move much, maybe left tp right some. On a boat you can run down a bass quickly making landing a big one that much easier. However the main thing is you can easily find fish. On shore I have to fish to find fish most times, especially at night. There is a limited area to fish and it is generally more dangerous in the surf.

My only issues are when boats get within casting range of me blitz or not. If I owned a boat I am going to take advantage and fish the well known rips instead of bothering some guys plying the surf.

I do enjoy doing either though, both are fun, boat is easier.

Montauk Surf 10-23-2012 09:07 PM

Re: Boat fisherman
Boat fishermen also have a longer season. It is very possible off Long Island to have 2 feet of snow on the ground and be freezing cold in December; and the surf fishing scene is over for the year. But, for those who care, can go offshore in 40 to 70 foot of water and catch a lot of stripers. Not those tiny schoolies that tend to end the surf fishing for the year either. The shallow water close to shore chills down much faster but offshore has warmer water longer.

I'm both a boat and surf fisherman.

fishinglsister 10-24-2012 07:13 PM

Re: Boat fisherman
I am not insulted by this thread!
I DO take exception to me not being able to "catch the clapp" on the beach though (I can catch the clapp anywhere Frank can). I'm pretty sure I've caught (more than) my share of big stuff (including a dozen over 50) from the beach. I went to the boat for "economic purposes" as it was far more productive to fish for money from a boat.
Yes, you can catch more fish from a boat and you can keep them "more marketable" too. Just drop them right into a cooler with ice brine and they all look like wall mounts! The market will pay more for that than fish that have been dragged all over the sand and look like they spent the night trying to catch the clapp at a beach party.
Yes, surf fishing is "harder" on the body and likely more hazardous too. I have had many friends die in boats too, including my commercial bass fishing partner from my Montauk days, the one and only Artie Johnson.
If you are fishing for money then the sensible thing to do is to go where the most money is. I PREFER TO FISH FROM THE BEACH, however if I told people I was taking charters of 4 guys from the beach for 5 hours at $100/person I would have very little business and surely ZERO repeat business (they could all just go where I took them and apply what they learned on the 1st outing).
In my Boston Harbor GPS (I have a seperate one for Westport) I have well over 600 spots marked. They have all produced well at one time or another and when something isn't working I have plenty of more (proven) spots to try. THAT is what people pay for. On the beach if, in the likely senario that you are not catching you have to go to another spot and those spots are more spread out than boat spots.
Again, yes it's harder from the beach but don't knock the boat...........JC

akoller 10-24-2012 08:39 PM

Re: Boat fisherman

Originally Posted by fishinglsister (Post 2377377)
On the beach if, in the likely senario that you are not catching you have to go to another spot and those spots are more spread out than boat spots.

:sign: It takes a long time to relocate and that kills your productivity, especially in regions with limited access to the shoreline. That's why the beach buggy (or canal bike) makes such a difference.

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