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Ask Frank Daignault Frank Daignault is recognized as an authority on surf fishing for striped bass. He is the author of six books and hundreds of magazine articles. Frank is a member of the Outdoor Writers of America and lectures throughout the Northeast.

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  #16  
Old 09-25-2010, 11:03 PM
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Steve C. Sink Steve C. Sink is offline
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

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Originally Posted by JoeLyons View Post
It does not really matter what anyone thinks.
Nor does it matter the arguments both pro and con.
The only thing that matters is if you've got an open mind to the degree that you might alter your approach if someone presented a good case. About half the time people are really just seeking an affirmation that validates their close-mindedness.
Well said Joe.

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  #17  
Old 09-26-2010, 06:35 AM
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

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Originally Posted by Steve C. Sink View Post
Well said Joe.

MULE.
[Hell'ov a contribution I made to this discussion]
Mule,

The "listen" part is the tough one. I have always told my sales guys "listen to your customer, (or perspective customer), they will always tell you what they want." Some novices get too excited about making their own pitch, some just never learn and you know you have a good one when you watch him address the customer's concern.
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  #18  
Old 09-26-2010, 06:47 AM
biggestsquid biggestsquid is offline
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

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Originally Posted by Steve C. Sink View Post
Well said Joe.

MULE.
[Hell'ov a contribution I made to this discussion]
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Originally Posted by Frank Daignault View Post
There has always been a school of thought that "high tide" had some sort of better fishing associated with it. Then there is the "third wave", which is the location part of the junk science study. Googans bring a lot of voodoo to surfcasting. I know this because I read it from the bones I threw against the wall.
Frank,

Perhaps it is coincidence but I seem to have my best "luck" within an hour either side a high or low tide. Of course --- if that time corresponds with dawn or dusk it is even better, particulary dusk to nightfall for me.

As much as I would like to be able to fish through the night --- I just can't make it all the way any more. I'm going to put myself to the test in the drum tourney next month --- but I already know that fishing all night for three nights running will just not work for this old sot.

I do try to find a location on the beach where a break in the bar creates extra water (bait and other?) movement around tidal peaks and have been lucky in catching fish as, I suspect, they are laying in wait on either side of the break.
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  #19  
Old 09-26-2010, 07:01 AM
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

I've often thought that our perception of best tide is related more to the places where we like to fish. In other words, if you are in the habit of fishing a couple of spots at a certain tide, there is the inference that that tide has some sort of significance. I commonly check out a place at the wrong tide just to keep it honest.
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  #20  
Old 09-26-2010, 08:47 AM
Chris Garrity Chris Garrity is offline
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

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I commonly check out a place at the wrong tide just to keep it honest.
Me too. In fact, because my time to fish is limited, I just go whenever I can, the tides be damned. When I hit powerball, and have all the time in the world, I'll schedule my trips to coincide with the best tides. If I did that now, though, I'd go fishing once a year. Rather than wait until everything is perfect and I have some free time, I just go whenever I can get out there. It's only fishing, right? And you can always learn something, even when you're doing things "wrong".

I've always thought that the main reason that shore fisherpersons prefer high tide is because you can see, when the tide is out, what the structure is like. See a nice piece of structure on the bottom at low tide? come back when the tide is high after dark and fish it. I know that the spring guys in Jersey around me (the good ones, anyway) have scouted the beaches during the day for the deepest troughs they could reach with a cast; they'd go back after dark, when the trough was covered by water, and generally clean up. It's a lot easier to identify good structure when you can see it (this isn't rocket science).

But just because you can never see the areas you'll be fishing during the ebb when they're high and dry doesn't mean that they aren't worth fishing. Sometimes - I think you've pointed this out, Frank - there will be fish holding at a particular point, and low tide is the time when you'll be able to reach them. Finding productive low tide spots is a lot more inexact a process than finding high tide spots, but it can be very worthwhile.

I remember reading in one of the books - probably Striper Surf - that low tide is a good time to be fishing, because everything is on the move; I've since learned that at my favorite inlet, low tide, when the water is as slack as you can find it, is often the best time to fish, probably for the reasons put forth by our own Mister Smarty.
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  #21  
Old 09-29-2010, 10:21 AM
SALMONMEISTER SALMONMEISTER is online now
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

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Again, I don't mean to insult. It's only the naming of the plug that annoys me. I've heard enough good things and techniques for this lure to make me a believer. Hope I didn't hurt your (non) feelings........
I said the above statement wrong. The naming of the plug is fine...it looks like a needlefish...not a sandeel. Maybe it works so well when sandeels are around because live needles are feeding on 'em too! What Frank refers to as "the masked hatch".
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  #22  
Old 09-29-2010, 11:26 AM
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

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Originally Posted by Montauk Surf View Post
I'm sure the inventor would have changed the name to sandeel fish if he knew the bucks would be rolling in because of a rise in sandeel populations.
Time to give credit where credit is due - all needlefish hounds owe gratitude to Mr. Sandy Showalter.

Excerpted from The Snowstorm Blitz:

The Boone Needlefish plug was developed by Sandy Showalter during the 1952 fishing season. It first appeared in the Boone 1953 catalog which was issued in July of 1952. Sandy was one of the founders of Boone Bait Company and an avid fisherman as well as an aeronautical engineer. Boone also trademarked the name.

BTW: Plug was designed to imitate an Atlantic Needlefish. But we all know they also resemble sand launce.

DZ
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  #23  
Old 09-29-2010, 01:06 PM
JoeLyons JoeLyons is offline
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

Suffering sand eel semantics! Anti-needlefish rhetoric is so thick you need fins to beat it down.
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  #24  
Old 09-29-2010, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

My fins are beating needle plugs down as well. I don't catch as many fish as you guys (I keep forgetting what Frank wrote in his books), but I've never caught on a needle, even when I was "supposed" to.

Hence it's not one of my go-to plugs, thus making it sort of a self fulfilling prophecy.
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  #25  
Old 09-29-2010, 01:36 PM
JoeLyons JoeLyons is offline
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

When conditions are best, people snap on their favorites.
When it's slow, they try out new stuff and don't have success or they try a new place and don't have success. Before we try something new, we make sure conditions are poor. Then we feel all proud about how we were right again That's the beauty of judging anything unfairly: it makes us feel superior.
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  #26  
Old 09-30-2010, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

Jumpin geehorseafats, between Garrity and Lyons, I feel like I need to either take a course or read a better striper book. I'll say again: do not outsmart Mister Smarty. My best take is that ... oh, I forgot!
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  #27  
Old 09-30-2010, 11:32 AM
JoeLyons JoeLyons is offline
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

Like if you want to take up saltwater fly-fishing, don't bring your conventional or spinning gear "in case fly fishing becomes impractical" - because you'll invariably go for the easy. To grow in anything, you have to be willing to commit to change and step outside of your comfort zone - easier said than done.
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  #28  
Old 09-30-2010, 03:04 PM
SALMONMEISTER SALMONMEISTER is online now
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

Quote:
Originally Posted by dz View Post
Time to give credit where credit is due - all needlefish hounds owe gratitude to Mr. Sandy Showalter.

Excerpted from The Snowstorm Blitz:

The Boone Needlefish plug was developed by Sandy Showalter during the 1952 fishing season. It first appeared in the Boone 1953 catalog which was issued in July of 1952. Sandy was one of the founders of Boone Bait Company and an avid fisherman as well as an aeronautical engineer. Boone also trademarked the name.

BTW: Plug was designed to imitate an Atlantic Needlefish. But we all know they also resemble sand launce.

DZ
DZ, I'm pretty sure your last statement was made to purposely put me over the edge. I just Googled Boone needlefish. Resembles a broomstick more than a needle or a sandeel....but definitely closer to a real needle. I strongly suggest you get some good glasses. When you look at all those 80lb codfish you've been catching from shore you'll now see that they were actually record stripers! You might be missing out!
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  #29  
Old 10-01-2010, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

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Originally Posted by JoeLyons View Post
When conditions are best, people snap on their favorites.
When it's slow, they try out new stuff and don't have success or they try a new place and don't have success. Before we try something new, we make sure conditions are poor. Then we feel all proud about how we were right again That's the beauty of judging anything unfairly: it makes us feel superior.
Powerful post Joe. There are places at Hatteras that I would love to catch a Big Drum at, but when the Drum are at the point, I'm there. They are also on the North beach, probably then as well, and bigger, but no, I go to the North beach when nothing's on the Point. Therefore nothing is what I catch. Worse thing that can happen is when we get hung up on a couple places.

MULE.
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  #30  
Old 10-01-2010, 08:13 AM
JoeLyons JoeLyons is offline
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

The concept of mutual exclusion. You can't have old-reliable and new at the same time. (Unless you're a Mormon) It does not mean that new is better - but new provides opportunity to grow and think for yourself - at the risk of failing.
I think when traveling, you are better off with old-reliable, but in your home waters fishing is more interesting if you experiment. Fishing the same waters over and over again turns some people away from the sport after a while.
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