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Ask Frank Daignault Frank Daignault is recognized as an authority on surf fishing for striped bass. He is the author of six books and hundreds of magazine articles. Frank is a member of the Outdoor Writers of America and lectures throughout the Northeast.

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  #31  
Old 10-01-2010, 01:08 PM
dz dz is offline
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

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Originally Posted by SALMONMEISTER View Post
DZ, I'm pretty sure your last statement was made to purposely put me over the edge. I just Googled Boone needlefish. Resembles a broomstick more than a needle or a sandeel....but definitely closer to a real needle. I strongly suggest you get some good glasses. When you look at all those 80lb codfish you've been catching from shore you'll now see that they were actually record stripers! You might be missing out!
Hi Salmon,
I wasn't trying to push your buttons with the needlefish thread. Just trying to reinforce what you said which is the plug was actually designed to imitate an "Atlantic needlefish". I spoke with the current owner of Boone and he gave me the full history. Most of the younger guys have no idea the plug was made to mimic a real needlefish. They just happen to work well when sand eels are present. Shoot me your email address and I'll send you some old Boone Needlefish advertisements and another story about one instance on block island when we were catching real needlefish in the harbor and the stripers were eating them along with our plugs.
Take care.
Dennis Zambrotta
zambrotd@nwc.navy.mil
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  #32  
Old 10-01-2010, 02:36 PM
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

thing is, I find most needlefish plugs sink, and real needlefish swimming on top

if sandeels are on the bottom, why didn't he name this a sand plug?
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  #33  
Old 10-01-2010, 02:47 PM
dz dz is offline
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

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thing is, I find most needlefish plugs sink, and real needlefish swimming on top

if sandeels are on the bottom, why didn't he name this a sand plug?
RobS,
For that you have the Floyd Roman "Sandee" made in the 1940s. Who knows why he left the "L" off the name - looks just like a sand eel.

"Real needlefish swim on top" - which is where I fish them most of the time.

DZ
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  #34  
Old 10-01-2010, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

Apparently the worth of a needlefish is controversial . It makes me feel better to not know much about them. My only excuse is that a life of love affairs in the striper surf, one after another, prevented me from trying everything.
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  #35  
Old 10-01-2010, 03:27 PM
dz dz is offline
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

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Apparently the worth of a needlefish is controversial . It makes me feel better to not know much about them. My only excuse is that a life of love affairs in the striper surf, one after another, prevented me from trying everything.
Frank,
Curious - do you ever remember seeing anyone use a needlefish during your time on the cape or rhody? Thinking 1960s and 70s here.

DZ
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  #36  
Old 10-01-2010, 03:46 PM
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Frank Daignault Frank Daignault is offline
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

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Frank,
Curious - do you ever remember seeing anyone use a needlefish during your time on the cape or rhody? Thinking 1960s and 70s here.

DZ
No, Dennis, not that much. And they had been invented by then. There was one guy, Joe Ross who sells the funky oudoor art at the shows, who got a 50+ on Race Bar with a needlefish. But they were not part of the standard riggor of the time. Even Ross got that fish after we left for the moratorium. Rebels and big wood really dominated.
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  #37  
Old 10-01-2010, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

I started with needlefish in the fall of 1981 when I got my 1st experience on Block Island. I heard that the 50's were jumping all over the things. That's right when the trouble started! The damn hooks that come with the plugs are quite inadequate and I lost many slobs the 1st time or two I fished the things (and ran into fish). After that I went to 4/0 and then 5/0 trebles to try to stop getting so many hooks straightened out! It seems that they not only pull too hard but I learned that bass can push a plug with their lips so they put enormous stress on whatever linkage there is from the plug to the hook. Eventually I went to split rings and swivels to get the hook a bit away from the plug so the fish wouldn't have so much leverage. By 1984 I had it down pretty good and one night landed 5 consecutive 40+ pound fish in a row.
I always carry needlefish plugs and today mine have VMC hooks (4/0) and a smaller (but much stronger-"for tuna") split ring...........JC
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  #38  
Old 10-01-2010, 07:28 PM
SALMONMEISTER SALMONMEISTER is offline
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

Quote:
Originally Posted by dz View Post
Hi Salmon,
I wasn't trying to push your buttons with the needlefish thread. Just trying to reinforce what you said which is the plug was actually designed to imitate an "Atlantic needlefish". I spoke with the current owner of Boone and he gave me the full history. Most of the younger guys have no idea the plug was made to mimic a real needlefish. They just happen to work well when sand eels are present. Shoot me your email address and I'll send you some old Boone Needlefish advertisements and another story about one instance on block island when we were catching real needlefish in the harbor and the stripers were eating them along with our plugs.
Take care.
Dennis Zambrotta
zambrotd@nwc.navy.mil
Thanx DZ. Even if I sound like I'm getting torqued by this whole thread, I'm getting a kick out of it all. I'll mail you for the ads and story.
Frank Zima
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  #39  
Old 10-01-2010, 09:18 PM
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Montauk Surf Montauk Surf is offline
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

Let's talk color..

I have had success with green and a white belly. I see lots of colors on the walls of tackle stores. I'm told black is good at night. And every plug is good for yellow.

Opinions on color for needles??
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  #40  
Old 10-02-2010, 07:19 AM
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

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Originally Posted by Montauk Surf View Post
Let's talk color..

I have had success with green and a white belly. I see lots of colors on the walls of tackle stores. I'm told black is good at night. And every plug is good for yellow.

Opinions on color for needles??
Yellow (or green) on a brighter night/black (or brown) on a dark night.......JC
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  #41  
Old 10-02-2010, 07:43 AM
JoeLyons JoeLyons is offline
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

Blurple, Yellow/White, White and Chartreuse/White are the most popular
I like the dark green over white the best.
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  #42  
Old 10-02-2010, 06:59 PM
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Steve C. Sink Steve C. Sink is offline
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishinglsister View Post
I started with needlefish in the fall of 1981 when I got my 1st experience on Block Island. I heard that the 50's were jumping all over the things. That's right when the trouble started! The damn hooks that come with the plugs are quite inadequate and I lost many slobs the 1st time or two I fished the things (and ran into fish). After that I went to 4/0 and then 5/0 trebles to try to stop getting so many hooks straightened out! It seems that they not only pull too hard but I learned that bass can push a plug with their lips so they put enormous stress on whatever linkage there is from the plug to the hook. Eventually I went to split rings and swivels to get the hook a bit away from the plug so the fish wouldn't have so much leverage. By 1984 I had it down pretty good and one night landed 5 consecutive 40+ pound fish in a row.
I always carry needlefish plugs and today mine have VMC hooks (4/0) and a smaller (but much stronger-"for tuna") split ring...........JC
Real good thinking there. Most know I'm a bait fisherman for Drum and the few Stripers that show up occasionally, but for fresh water, I've always changed out the hooks like fishinglsister wisely suggested. [Real good idea about getting the hook away from the plug]. I almost never see a fisherman sharpen a hook. Like someone mentioned, people put a fortune in an outfit and throw out a dull hook or stick it in a PVC rod holder that a Croaker could pull over. I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I sharpen my hooks with a bastard [word probably won't fly] file, until it will hang by itself in my thumb nail with the thumb nail pointed down. It's sharp then, and check it every time you pull it in. Goin' try some circle hooks this Fall, and I will try to figure some way to do the same with them.

MULE.
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  #43  
Old 10-02-2010, 09:08 PM
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

Thanks fishinglsister and Joe regarding the color input.

By the way, I have done well with the shorter and wider needlefish in around Thanksgiving on the open sandy beaches. Even if there had been a low population of sandeels throughout the year..it is the late fall surf when at least some will be around.

Often the large bass have moved on already but good action can be had with small bass on the small needlefish plug. Beats freezing and catching nothing
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  #44  
Old 10-03-2010, 06:50 AM
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

I mentioned this here before, but if you ever wade in the canal at low tide and look down you will likely see crabs and lobsters crawling around. Lobsters, in particular, look like sticks that move slowly and steadily along the bottom. The first time I saw that, I thought "needlefish!" Unfortunately, you only get about 30 min per tide when you can fish something slowly and steadily along the bottom at the canal, and frankly the needlefish take too long to sink 30 feet so I rely on other methods there. But I wouldn't be surprised if the bass are actually keyed in on crustaceans when slamming needles. Or they simply have an instinct to hit something that is trying to move stealthily along the bottom.
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  #45  
Old 10-04-2010, 08:18 AM
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Frank Daignault Frank Daignault is offline
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Default Re: Baseless Speculation/junk Science

Bass can exhibit selective behavior but they often will hit one thing that is nothing like what they are actively feeding on.

I don't know who is right but so much is said and repeated that I don't agree with that I don't like to talk about it:
There is no bait.
It is the seals.
The water is too warm.
The water is to cold.
Above ground nuclear testing.
The (name the ethic group) kill everything.
Pollution.
Boats got them all.

How about someone saying, "I don't know."
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