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  #61  
Old 12-24-2003, 10:20 PM
BENTROD BENTROD is offline
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mr CATCHN???? , Thats whats bothers me too.. GREED, GREED, GREED, fffkyeng GREED

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  #62  
Old 12-24-2003, 10:21 PM
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P.S ECT

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  #63  
Old 12-24-2003, 10:41 PM
Mr.Wiggley Mr.Wiggley is offline
 
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I am by no means any kind of an expert here but want to add my 2 cents. My personal observations in the lasy 3 years = The Cod have hade a dramatic comeback in the last few years due to some good management, by whom exactly I don't know but I am sure several opposition groups claim responsibility. The Herring are rapidly being decimated as were the Bunker/Menhaden and may not recover if something substantial isn't done very quickly and I mean right away. Whose to blame? - I have no idea but I bet if all these different factions perhaps put aside their differences for once we could make some progress in this arena. The way I see arguing going back and forth all the way from these internet sites to our legislators absolutely NOTHING will ever get accomplished to favor the return of these, as of present, nearly lost species. I see tons & tons of juvenile Menhaden or Peanut Bunker all year long but no adults. It apperas to my untrained eye that they are breeding just fine and the estuaries & shallow bays are doing the job they are designed for.
I honestly don't even know what authority to listen to anymore with all this BS so I'll make my own policy like everyone else I guess.
One group blames the Comms another the Recs. One group says the Recs beach more fish then the Comms, man nobody knows SH!T!! We are all F*****D up!!!

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  #64  
Old 12-30-2003, 04:17 AM
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Hmmm, this thread has made up my mind... I'm eating only Soylent Green from now on!

Bet it makes good chum, too...
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  #65  
Old 12-30-2003, 04:38 AM
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Said a different way, Tuck's right. The more data we have on an issue, the more it points up the interlocking web of economics that come back to one thing: there are a lot of interests out for bunker, and most of us fuel them one way or another. I'm inclined to agree that, if it's true that wasteful polution and poor management of land/bay use kills more fish than our hooking and netting capacity, recs and comms may have more common cause than perhaps we realize.

TU does a good job of commisioning economic studies to support its conservation positions. Where do we go for good science on our issues? I'd like to see a pareto chart showing which economic interests kill the most fish for least explainable benefit. Until then, I'm not taking sides.
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  #66  
Old 12-30-2003, 07:54 AM
BENTROD BENTROD is offline
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THEN what your trying to say is < sandyhooker> you have no problem with comm activity on bunker as long as the stocks stay high??i hope thats what you meant because thats the way it should be. most recs cant see past the end of their poles and are ignorant to any facts

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  #67  
Old 12-30-2003, 04:47 PM
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What I'm saying, Bentrod, is this:

1) We are none of us pure as the driven snow in conservation. My wife uses cosmetics. I used to own a cat. I probably use toher products that I enjoy a lower price for because bunker is an ingredient. I don;t know all the facts.
2) I eat fish sometimes that I buy in the market.
3) Thus, automatically saying there should be NO commercial fishing shows ignorance of ALL the facts and condemns an industry for which I create some demand.
4) Rather than point the finger at other groups that use the fish that I as a rec would like to see more of, perhaps there are other, more serious threats. This thread had a suggestion that power plants boil fish rather than pay what is, in the grand scheme of things, probably a comparatively modest sum to upgrade theiur equipment.
5) If true, Comms and Recs are probably better off partnering to ensure we have more fish to share than sniping over who takes what is there.

This is a plausable line of reasoning. There are others, e.g., the sorry record of comms in pillaging some fish stocks to the extent they no longer can make a comforatble living fishing them. Fact is, I don't have all the facts to substantiate or rebut it. So, what organization do we fund together to conduct the proper research?
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  #68  
Old 12-30-2003, 04:49 PM
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I assume that with all the facts the commercial fishing industry will not repeatedly destroy its own livlihood. Both comms and recs need good science, good facts, and good analysis to make meaningful arguments, as both Bob D. and Fishpicker point out. Not sure this site, or my own meager efforts, are the best way to formulate an informed opinion.
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  #69  
Old 12-30-2003, 05:08 PM
HocusPocus HocusPocus is offline
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quote:
Originally posted by SandyHooker:
What I'm saying, Bentrod, is this:

1) We are none of us pure as the driven snow in conservation. My wife uses cosmetics. I used to own a cat. I probably use toher products that I enjoy a lower price for because bunker is an ingredient. I don;t know all the facts.
2) I eat fish sometimes that I buy in the market.
3) Thus, automatically saying there should be NO commercial fishing shows ignorance of ALL the facts and condemns an industry for which I create some demand.
4) Rather than point the finger at other groups that use the fish that I as a rec would like to see more of, perhaps there are other, more serious threats. This thread had a suggestion that power plants boil fish rather than pay what is, in the grand scheme of things, probably a comparatively modest sum to upgrade theiur equipment.
5) If true, Comms and Recs are probably better off partnering to ensure we have more fish to share than sniping over who takes what is there.

This is a plausable line of reasoning. There are others, e.g., the sorry record of comms in pillaging some fish stocks to the extent they no longer can make a comforatble living fishing them. Fact is, I don't have all the facts to substantiate or rebut it. So, what organization do we fund together to conduct the proper research?

SandyHooker, this is one of the best and most reasonable post I have read on here, Thank you.

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  #70  
Old 12-31-2003, 11:10 AM
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Thank you SandyHooker for your wise commentary.
I have been thinking about all of this a few times over the hollidays and I got two questions for CatchnRelease.

1. Why would a commercial fisherman want to fish a species to the brink of distruction, inevitably fishing themselves out of a job?
What do they do after that, become lumberjacks?

2. Why would a retail outlet carry a supply of commercially caught fish, if there wasn't a demand for it? They would be waisting money supplying a product that nobody wants. Just like any consumer product, it wouldn't be on the shelf if somebody wasn't buying it.
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  #71  
Old 12-31-2003, 12:35 PM
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Well This was a good read. First a bashing between Comm's and Rec's, which did not answer the question about the fish known as Bunker or Menhaden. So lets get a couple of things straight about what this thread has been about and what I feel. Comm fishermen have a place(feed people with good food). Some comm's have over steped their bounds in the past and some (movivated by $$$$) will again if given the chance. Rec's kill fish!!!!!!
Now the Menhaden killing by the reduction fleet in inshore water's is a real problem(mostly smaller fish with less oil per fish(less everything). I feel they need to moved off shore too work the reminants of the larger fish population which they worked over for years. The numbers that are taken from the Chesapeake are way high. I live between the York River and the James River. The Stripers of the Chesapeake are starving for the most part(or diseased). They are eating Crabs in huge quanties(hurting the professional crabers) since they don't have their normal quantity of Bunker. The Oysters are diseased since the overhead filter feeding is reduced in numbers(my idea which may or may not hold water, but I believe it is true) not allowing the plankton to be eaten allowing for more sunlight to reach the deeper water of the bay. The same is for the SAV grasses. It is all inter related which people need to understand. The Chess needs it's Bunker bad.
Oh by the way in 1999 I could catch 18-20 inch striper until my arms fell off (100-150 per 2 hours) two at a time in many cases. This year it has been ruff.

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  #72  
Old 12-31-2003, 06:00 PM
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OK Tuck..

1. Commercial fisherman HAVE...HAVE ..(Continue to do it...Chilean Bass, etc...) got that Tuck...fished species to the brink..WHALES, COD, HAKE, blah, blah..or about winter flounder? Not there yet?
No MORE WHALE SHIPS IN CAPE COD I think?

2.Most people buy almost any fish, hey I know where there is a market for sea robins,...since our population is so diverse, people will eat most fish species...IF IT IS AVAILABLE...

You can't buy and eat what's not available...eaten any sturgeon lately?

What the heck..
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  #73  
Old 01-02-2004, 10:35 PM
CapRandy CapRandy is offline
 
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No one wants to put down their rods and reels and every boat sales,tackle store ,eatery,gas station and motel owner better hope we dont.There a lot more rec fishermen than commercials and the commercials keep getting the breaks from tonage on bluefin to starting to net strippers where they didnt use to.As for the menhaden the menhaden boats will kill out stripers if they continue their netting vaccuming techniques.We need to protect from the smallest creeks all the way offshore and recs need to get better lobbyist and get with each other or else!!
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  #74  
Old 01-02-2004, 11:33 PM
BENTROD BENTROD is offline
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caprandy, you seem to be a bit CONFUSED!!... the recs dont need any more lobbyist, all that does is just politicalise the process. THE RECS NEED MORE DATA. thats the problem.if the recs had some sort of data system everything would be PEACHY..

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  #75  
Old 01-02-2004, 11:35 PM
BENTROD BENTROD is offline
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P.S . the arguement that there are more recs out there than comms, so for that reason they should rule the road IS VERY OLD AND IGNORANT. PLEASE CAP COME UP WITH SOMETHING BETTER!!

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