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Commercial - Recreational - Conservation Issues An open forum for the exchange of ideas and positions on current and proposed regulations in saltwater fishing and conservation.

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  #16  
Old 02-10-2006, 04:15 PM
Bob ECT Bob ECT is offline
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Default Re: New Striper report

Don't say nothing Marty

I'm waiting for Rags to us how the comm bycatch is more reliable the the rec
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  #17  
Old 02-10-2006, 04:35 PM
BENTROD BENTROD is offline
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Default Re: New Striper report

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob ECT
Don't say nothing Marty

I'm waiting for Rags to us how the comm bycatch is more reliable the the rec
i don't even know how they calculate it,,,,but I'm sure its far more superior than the recs guessing game.....i would think that observer coverage is in there some where
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  #18  
Old 02-10-2006, 06:09 PM
ONSHORE ONSHORE is offline
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Default Re: New Striper report

Bob,
You are the perfect example of the saying, give them a little knowledge and see how dangerous they can be !

I don't know why you post on this forum. Suggest you go back to Gripers Forever. Maybe Brad Burns will agree with you.

Bill
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  #19  
Old 02-10-2006, 09:50 PM
Bob ECT Bob ECT is offline
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Default Re: New Striper report

Quote:
Originally Posted by ONSHORE
Bob,
You are the perfect example of the saying, give them a little knowledge and see how dangerous they can be !

I don't know why you post on this forum. Suggest you go back to Gripers Forever. Maybe Brad Burns will agree with you.

Bill
Sorry but you got the wrong guy pal. You're way off. Again we seem to be on a different subject. Reread. Though you didn't answer my questions.

No Hints FishPicker I want the answers from Rags! He knows the data is solid as a rock. No Hints
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  #20  
Old 02-10-2006, 10:34 PM
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ragman ragman is offline
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Default Re: New Striper report

Yes Bob,
I do know how its calculated,but I'm off to work now.I'll explain it to you in the morning...
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  #21  
Old 02-11-2006, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: New Striper report

BobECT,
Now that I have spent my 8 hours at work,dealing with people that have very little common sense,and dont care to open their eyes,I can answer you. In the report that Fishpicker posted,which I read before he posted it here,on page 6,Commercial non harvest mortality,"Commercial discards in 2003 and 2004 were estimated using the ratio of commercial to recreational fish tag recovery data,scaled by total recreational discards" From what I read there,and what other commercial fishermen besideds Bent and Picker have told me,,they get a tagged fish,the send the tag in (while the fish gets discarded by the way ) and the number of tags sent in by the commercial sector is compared with the number returned by the rec sector,then averaged out.I believe that would be considered "data",wouldnt it? Thats along with trip sheets,observers etc. When was the last time you,as a recreational fisherman,had to report anything,much less discards,to anyone?Yeah,you get a tagged fish,send the tag in.At least you can keep the fish,unlike a comm.Do you have to report to anyone,a short striper,that you catch,which is deeply hooked and bleeding,that you know when released,is going to die? I didnt think so.Tell me that it has never happened to you,and you are either a liar,or dont fish much.
It boils down to accountability.There is almost none in the rec sector(the only real data given is by party and charter boats,and I bet some of that is questionable...) There are many recs who dont fish either,but fish from the beach or a pier,that dont have to answer to anyone.I spend a LOT of time fishing IBSP,probably 250+ days a year,and have never had anyone ask me to participate in a survey.The only time I saw someone doing a survey,was a Saturday afternoon at the air station.I finished airing up,and waited around for the guy to finish asking the other guy there his questions.When he was done with him,he got in his car and drove away.Now,thats what I call a good way to collect data.Guess he wasnt interested in the 3 stripers,4 bluefish, 3 sea robins,2 skates and a dogfish that I caught(and,no,none of them were kept).Maybe I just didnt look "recreational" enough,didnt have an RFA hat on?
Until such time as there is some type of reporting of catch and discard by recs,that is mandatory as it is with comms,all the crying by RFA,JCAA,etc is just,as some of the comms like to say,"REC GREED". The way discard is reported by the comms may not be the most accurate,and many of them will tell you that,but it's a lot better than the reporting done by recs,which is NONE....
Time for my ride to the beach,have a nice day....
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  #22  
Old 02-11-2006, 10:30 AM
Fish Tank Fish Tank is offline
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Default Re: New Striper report


Well said Rags!!!
I'm impressed!!!
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  #23  
Old 02-11-2006, 11:01 AM
BENTROD BENTROD is offline
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Default Re: New Striper report

Hey Ect....take That!!!!!
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  #24  
Old 02-12-2006, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: New Striper report

BobECT,
Well,you havent answed my post.... Too much on target,or shoveling snow? You asked,I said my piece.Any rebuttal?
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  #25  
Old 02-13-2006, 11:08 AM
Bob ECT Bob ECT is offline
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Default Re: New Striper report

Quote:
Originally Posted by ragman
BobECT,
In the report that Fishpicker posted,which I read before he posted it here,on page 6,Commercial non harvest mortality,"Commercial discards in 2003 and 2004 were estimated using the ratio of commercial to recreational fish tag recovery data,scaled by total recreational discards" From what I read there,and what other commercial fishermen besideds Bent and Picker have told me,,they get a tagged fish,the send the tag in (while the fish gets discarded by the way ) and the number of tags sent in by the commercial sector is compared with the number returned by the rec sector,then averaged out.I believe that would be considered "data",wouldnt it? Thats along with trip sheets,observers etc.]
Sorry but no other data is used. No trip sheets, no observer data, nothing. The Comm bycatch is based on MRFSS and tags. That's it. It's based on the exact same data source that you continually cry about, yet somehow it's better now. You stated their bycatch amount was far more solid then ours. How's that?

At least the rec estimate is based on studies showing an 8% average. Returned tags are an easily manipulated number, once word got around, many no longer send them back now because they're shooting themselves in the foot to do so.
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  #26  
Old 02-13-2006, 11:52 AM
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Default Re: New Striper report

BobECT,
Read this s l o w l y,and also my original post. I know that no other data is used.However,a comm HAS to report something,even if it's bogus,as many of them will tell you. A rec has to report nothing,even if by chance a surveyor wants to ask him or her.Can tell him to pound salt if he wants. It boils down to accountability.Yes,I agree that the comm reporting of striper bycatch is bogus,but at least they have to do something.They dont send in reports,or tags,or whatever the government wants them to do,they lose their livelyhood.What happens to a rec that hits a blitz,and just keeps dumping the fish on the beach,and when it's over,decides to toss them back,usually dead,because the fishing was just too good to take the time to return them as they were caught?Uuuhh,yep,nothing. I admit it happens more with bluefish,but have seen the same thing happen with stripers,and it's usually not done by someone who is just learning how to fish,but guys that spend a lot of time on the beach.And I'm willing to bet,the ones that do it are the ones that yell the loudest about how comms are ruining the fishing....
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  #27  
Old 02-13-2006, 01:40 PM
Bob ECT Bob ECT is offline
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Default Re: New Striper report

They don't have to report anything for this number, it's purely voluntary, and the smart ones know not to.

You said the comm bycatch number is alot better then our estimate. How? Don't give us the observer and logs nonsense.

You continue to say ours is unreliable because it's based on MRFSS. I guess I can't figue out how MRFSS is unreliable for our number, yet somehow reliable for theirs? Can you explain that one again?
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  #28  
Old 02-13-2006, 02:42 PM
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Default Re: New Striper report

Simple answer....They have to report,we dont.I think thats what I have been trying to say all along.They HAVE to report,we dont.The stuff from both sides is unreliable,however,if they dont report,they are screwed,if we dont,so what? If anyone wants to complain about how stocks are allocated,which many rec groups are doing lately,look at yourself,and see if you can be held up to the standards that the comms are.Maybe a rec saltwater license is the answer.I dont think so,as I think that any funds gathered from it will be used for other purposes(NJ).If it would provide any useful information on how the stocks are being managed,though I wont like kicking in the money, but I would be in favor of it
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  #29  
Old 02-13-2006, 02:52 PM
Bob ECT Bob ECT is offline
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Default Re: New Striper report

Report what?

Is there some comm reports MRFSS's uses were not aware of? Can't see why, it's not a comm fishery report. No regs on turning in tags so I'm still lost on how their bycatch number is more reliable then ours.

Recs do have to report in many fisheries already. I had to do 5 weeks worth of logs last season. Also got MRFSS surveyed 3 times. Even got a phone survey on Saturday.
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  #30  
Old 02-13-2006, 03:59 PM
BENTROD BENTROD is offline
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Default Re: New Striper report

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob ECT
Report what?

so I'm still lost on how their bycatch number is more reliable then ours.

.
IT doesn't really matter how they do it with striped bass.....i already cut my scuppers bigger.......and for the real big ones,,,,,I MADE A SPECIAL HOOK,,,,,and all i have to do is turn the hydraulics on
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