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Ask Frank Daignault Frank Daignault is recognized as an authority on surf fishing for striped bass. He is the author of six books and hundreds of magazine articles. Frank is a member of the Outdoor Writers of America and lectures throughout the Northeast.

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  #16  
Old 05-04-2013, 06:34 PM
Tin Boat Tin Boat is offline
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Default Re: "education"?

I have to confess that the old stuff turns me on (I am talking about striper lures), and I frequently let them to strut their stuff once again. Otherwise they might freeze up, and the fish don't give a damn what age they are.
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  #17  
Old 05-05-2013, 12:02 PM
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Frank Daignault Frank Daignault is offline
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Default Re: "education"?

Yes, old stuff turns me on also.
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  #18  
Old 05-05-2013, 03:35 PM
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Frank I am putting this one on a tee for you to elaborate (it is from your Trophy Striper masterpiece) Games big stripers play? Koller brought it up as I was hoping for..."situations where big bass used the environment to escape"?
-Phil
Frank? great points about plugs Tinboat!!!
-Phil
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  #19  
Old 05-06-2013, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: "education"?

"Dont worry boy, we will have you back in a jiffy!" Where have I heard that before?
Personally, I dont believe fish in the wild such as stripers and blues "learn" about catch and release, but I have no way of knowing. And I think a lot of thier behavior is heriditary. Ever see a striper take a bait fish tail first? They somehow know that if they do that, good chance the fins are going to stick in thier throat, where a blue, tail first is the preferred way of attack. And I dont think that happens from trial and error. However, in a more confined environment, such as a pond or small lake, I do think fish can "learn" what to expect. An example, we went to Bass Pro Shops in Myrtle Beach today, and they have a pond in front of the store with a foot bridge over it to the entrance. They also have a vending machine, put a quarter in turn the knob, and a handful of fish pellets come out to feed the fish in the pond. As usual, there was a woman droping pellets into the water, and there were these large carp sitting there waiting the turn for a pellet. My wife was amazed that they patiently waited thier turn for a pellet rather than thrashing around after them. Had to explain to her that they know they are going to get fed, and dont have to struggle to get thier food. She finally got the idea...
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  #20  
Old 05-07-2013, 07:46 AM
lagoonguy lagoonguy is offline
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Default Re: "education"?

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Originally Posted by Frank Daignault View Post
Yes, old stuff turns me on also.
Me too. I always had a box on the boat with several old wood plugs in it - Atoms, Googooeyes, Pikes. Every couple years I'd change the rusty hooks and spray paint them either all white or black (the fish never cared). Same when I was plugging the surf, always had a couple in my backpack.
BillH
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  #21  
Old 05-07-2013, 01:40 PM
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Default Re: "education"?

With many land animals behavior is reinforced -- negative or positive -- where the mammal learns to exact results. A bad experience will cause the animal to reject the stimuli and a good one will cause the animal to respond for a repeat of the good experience. Because land animals are in our environment, we readily observe these results. But with fish in an environment foreign to us it is not possible to readily observe results. There is commonality in at least one case which is that of giving them food. We can bait deer with corn or chum fish with chum. (dah) We make certain assumptions with fish that were extaperated (sp) from our land experiences which might be a mistake.

I know that if you shoot at a deer and miss the buggah is not going to go by that spot for a long time, if ever. If you shoot at a woodchuck and miss he screws the next time he sees ya. Squirrels also. Turkeys learn not to gobble.
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  #22  
Old 05-09-2013, 11:52 AM
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Default Re: "education"?

Here is a simple question to further what i was trying to get across with this thread question to Frank and all of the rest of us...examples or notions of when bass exibit "intelligence" (survival instinct, picky-non feeding during times of fishing pressure/boat traffic, using enviornmental structure to escape- line cut offs, tangles, scrubbing off the hook on bottom etc.) isn't it "funny" that almost everywhere, aside from the open beach, that big bass hang out there is food and structure/deep water close by to use for feeding AND escape?
-Phil
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  #23  
Old 05-09-2013, 12:58 PM
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Default Re: "education"?

All wildlife uses adaptations that are environmentally specific. Where this subject gets dicey is knowing what they are and for land animals like us, understanding their adaptations in an environment -- water -- which is foreign to us. We have to learn to think out of the box with any effort to understand them. We are dealing with two sets of issues here: the aquatic enviro and the sensual adaptations of the fish. For example, can fish smell? Or is scent's role in the highly diluted water scene reduced to insignificance? And what about vision? Do fish see the same way as we do? (How's that for a brain fart?)
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:02 PM
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Anyone ever been broken off, or lost a big bass where the surrounding structure etc. helped the fish to escape?
-Phil
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  #25  
Old 05-10-2013, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: "education"?

I have but not that often. I had a large pick up an eel and weave the line in the bottom rocks. Also, a number of times I have been cut off on C-town breachway by a boat traveling through. Boat skippers, but not all, commonly blast right through the opening with no regard that there might be people fighting a fish. I think the risk of having a fish weave your line in an obstructions, a lobstger pot might be a good exmple, is greater if you are fishing a lighter line.

Because I have a leaning toward very heavy gear, big bass don't get their head very often with me. If I'm not fly fishing lines are no less than 50 pound and now, with the new lines, 65.
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  #26  
Old 05-10-2013, 04:30 PM
lagoonguy lagoonguy is offline
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Many times when boat fishing off S.New Hampshire and Cape Ann and around the islands of Boston Harbor and Nahant. Sometimes you can avoid it with heavy tackle but at others, it's advantage fish.
BillH
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  #27  
Old 05-13-2013, 02:23 PM
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Yes Frank I have evovled over the last five years or so into using heavier line generally 50lb. braid for spinning with slugos and light plugs(heavy hooks), and 65lb. braid for conventional, 60lb.-80lb. leader tied direct. Your advice on fishing heavy or you will wind up "retching in the dunes" when you lose the fish you really want, to light gear, is the voice of experience-Important. Many surfcasters learn that the hard way. Maybe the modern gear has erased alot of the striper's advantage in having their head, and being able to do what they want?
-Phil
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  #28  
Old 05-13-2013, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: "education"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Phil View Post
Anyone ever been broken off, or lost a big bass where the surrounding structure etc. helped the fish to escape?
-Phil
This is a regular occurrence at the Cape Cod Canal. Even when you use heavy tackle the current gives the fish an advantage. Often you choose between letting the fish run to the rocks and ripping the hook from the fish's mouth.
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  #29  
Old 05-13-2013, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: "education"?

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Originally Posted by akoller View Post
This is a regular occurrence at the Cape Cod Canal. Even when you use heavy tackle the current gives the fish an advantage. Often you choose between letting the fish run to the rocks and ripping the hook from the fish's mouth.
Great example akoller. I read some of the posts from Jon and yourself about canal conditions, and the "ledge" etc. I have never ripped an intact hook from a bass with pretty heavy drag settings but I did fold a few straight that I "thought" were strong enough, until I learned better. Do you guys use brute conventional tackle for the canal?
It seems like a good example of big smart bass hanging out in areas with food and "escape hatches"
-Phil
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  #30  
Old 05-13-2013, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: "education"?

To be honest, I don't think they are that smart. I think it is just the case that good places to find prey are also good places for big bass to break you off. Lots of current, rocks, ledges, etc. That being said, I've had a few fish that seemed to know exactly what they were doing and made it to the rocks before I even had time to think about what was happening. I'm not sure I'm ready to actually give the fish that sort of intellectual credit, though.

I'll let Jon speak for himself but I, like many canal people now, don't use conventional tackle simply because now-a-days there are strong enough spinning reels to get the job done. They are expensive and heavy, however.

Has everyone heard the story from Captain Jason (who has caught 24 "50's") about how he almost got spooled by a 20 lber at the canal?
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