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Commercial - Recreational - Conservation Issues An open forum for the exchange of ideas and positions on current and proposed regulations in saltwater fishing and conservation.

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  #46  
Old 01-08-2005, 04:40 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Respectfully Yours:
[quote]Originally posted by bennyb:
And what about the FYKE NETS IN THE BREEDING RIVERS???
[quote]

So they are netted in the BREEDING RIVERS?? Where do the recs target them? In the ALREADY BRED RIVERS? RY <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please don't be silly.
Recs fish a couple of hours during a tide in these areas. A good steady pick might yeild two guys in a boat 30 or 40 fish.

Those nets are up and being tended to constantly for weeks. You cant even compare the two realistically.

I fish Raritan and Barnegat Bay for them in the Spring. I have never cleaned a flounder with roe in it. It is to the point where it is not even worth fishing for Winter Flounder near fyke nets cause they all vanish quickly.

You guys down south have no Idea about inshore winter flounder. If you did, you would probably agree with our argument here. Do you even get winter flounder inshore down there? I didn't think they were common below Barnegat Bay.

Guys like me and Livetofish have nothing against people who make their living fishing. My grandfather was a commercial fisherman.
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  #47  
Old 01-08-2005, 05:19 PM
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"Please don't be silly.
Recs fish a couple of hours during a tide in these areas. A good steady pick might yield two guys in a boat 30 or 40 fish."

So ten of your boats would yield 350 fish ??? Humm thats just the boats. I think that there is a little more to this story then a cut back to one sector. I See 9.99 a lbs and to guys catchin 35 fish. HUMMMM
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  #48  
Old 01-08-2005, 06:08 PM
Respectfully Yours Respectfully Yours is offline
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bennyb:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Respectfully Yours:
[quote]Originally posted by bennyb:
And what about the FYKE NETS IN THE BREEDING RIVERS???
[quote]

So they are netted in the BREEDING RIVERS?? Where do the recs target them? In the ALREADY BRED RIVERS? RY <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please don't be silly.
Recs fish a couple of hours during a tide in these areas. A good steady pick might yeild two guys in a boat 30 or 40 fish.

Those nets are up and being tended to constantly for weeks. You cant even compare the two realistically.

I fish Raritan and Barnegat Bay for them in the Spring. I have never cleaned a flounder with roe in it. It is to the point where it is not even worth fishing for Winter Flounder near fyke nets cause they all vanish quickly.

You guys down south have no Idea about inshore winter flounder. If you did, you would probably agree with our argument here. Do you even get winter flounder inshore down there? I didn't think they were common below Barnegat Bay.

Guys like me and Livetofish have nothing against people who make their living fishing. My grandfather was a commercial fisherman. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Benny I'm trying not to be silly but when a net goes into the river its a BREEDING RIVER. When a hook with a bloodworm goes into the same river it NOT a BREEDING RIVER.

When I was a kid we used to fish for winter flounder off of the West Wildwood railroad bridge. I was kind of young but I remember alot of people doing it. And we never saw a 30 or 40 fish day. There were no fyke nets and not really a drag fishery for them down this way. Now those fish aren't there. Since they were only hook and lined down here and they aren't there now should I conclude that recreational fishermen fished them out???Well, there were fish here. Recs caught them now there aren't fish here. WHAT SHOULD I CONCLUDE HAPPENED TO THE FISH???You tell me......please. RY
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  #49  
Old 01-08-2005, 08:05 PM
hayswalt hayswalt is offline
 
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We're going to get you Comms for killing all our winter flounder-

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Anglers voice their frustration during winter flounder hearing

Published in the Asbury Park Press 1/08/05
The second largest crowd of anglers in the history of public fisheries hearings in New Jersey came from as far away as 90 miles on a cold, rainy night to express their dissatisfaction with the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission and its management of the winter flounder fishery.
The frustration and bitter feeling of nearly 400 persons toward the ASMFC at Wednesday's hearing filled the air of Taylor Pavilion in Belmar like electricity.

New Jersey has more winter flounder anglers and catches more winter flounders than any other state in the Union, and they demonstrated their passion for the fishery.

The message they sent back to the winter flounder board of the ASMFC was status quo -- leave the New Jersey recreational fishery alone, do not regulate us further, stay out of our lives, and address the real problem behind dwindling stocks.

The wrath of the crowd toward the ASMFC's preferred proposals -- 12-inch minimum size, two-fish possession limit or closing the season in March and April -- was evident in several outbursts of feeling.

Tom McCloy, administrator for the state's marine fisheries; Raymond D. Bogan, legal counsel for the United Boatmen; James A. Donofrio, executive director of the Recreational Fishing Alliance; and Tony Bogan, New Jersey's representative on the Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council, repeatedly urged the fishermen to refrain from angry comments to the state representatives.

"The state is on our side," Donofrio said. "They're trying to help us. Don't beat up your own people."

Tony Bogan explained that at earlier ASMFC meetings on winter flounders, the New Jersey representatives, including the state biologists, were leading the fight against more stringent regulations.

"At the meeting last August, New Jersey was the only state opposed to these measures," he said.



Bruce L. Freeman, research scientist with the state Division of Fish and Wildlife, acted as moderator of the hearing, and was burdened with the chief responsibility for trying to answer anglers' questions that ranged from why New York anglers were not stopped from fishing illegally for blackfish in New Jersey waters to how the ASMFC has such control over New Jersey fishermen's lives.
Rep. Frank Pallone Jr., D-NJ, drove from Washington after a day of meetings and caucuses to attend the hearing and express his understanding of the plight of anglers.

"Like many of you, I support the main goal of Amendment I, which is to 'promote stock rebuilding and management of the winter flounder fishery in a manner that is biologically, economically, socially and ecologically sound,' " he said.

"However, I fail to see how the recreational fisheries management measures proposed in this draft are biologically, economically, socially or ecologically sound," he added.

"Either of these options would end the winter flounder fishery in New Jersey, and cause irreparable harm to the businesses that depend on it," he pointed out.

"Moreover, neither proposal offers a solution to the problem," he stressed. "In the end, these proposals will only hurt the people, not revitalize the fishery.

"My constituents tell me that the main problem here is that the ASMFC does not have an idea of what the target is within the winter flounder fishery, and that the ASMFC does not even know if this reduction in catch will even work," he said.

"Why should recreational anglers reduce their catch further?" he asked. "Recreational anglers have been reducing their catch over the last 10 years, and it isn't working to restore the fishery.

"Furthermore, anglers are not getting any credit for their past reductions, this current system of punishing recreational anglers is not working, and we must find other options that actually work in order to make this fishery more productive," he said.

Of the anglers who attended the hearing. 329 signed a list that included their preference in management options, and they were almost unanimous in choosing Option 6, which was status quo -- not to change the regulations.

An estimated 70 persons who came to the hearing did not sign the attendance list that was circulated through the crowd, because they missed it, were unable to get into the pavilion or left early.



<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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  #50  
Old 01-08-2005, 11:02 PM
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Boy could you picture Big Al's story if that was us being unruly.
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  #51  
Old 01-09-2005, 11:33 AM
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BENNY B,,, DO YOU KNOW WHAT SUCKS???? that summer flounder is closed for us on wed...that means we had 11 days that we could fish for fluke...this is something we used to do YEAR -ROUND,,,, now its a 11 day fishery...well i call that strict regulations THAT WE LIVE WITH!!!!

IT SEEMS TO ME that the trend with the recs is just fill the room,,,,and then pump up the IGNORANT RECS WITH LIQUOR,,, TO MAKE THEM EVEN MORE IGNORANT,,,,like they did again at the meeting up your way,,,, get POOR OL AL TO CRY HIS EYES OUT IN THE PAPER,,,,, this is the trend of RECREATIONAL FISHERIE MAMAGEMENT.....KINDA DISTURBING ISN'T IT
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  #52  
Old 01-09-2005, 11:37 AM
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You would be hard pressed to find 10 rec boats fishing for flounder in the rivers where those fyke nets are. It's just not worth it. Those nets are placed in areas where the fish travel in and out to spawn. That is an undisputable fact. Those rivers are what they are for everyone not just netters.

It IS silly to compare hooks and bloodworms to these nets.

Hooks catch one fish at a time, maybe two if you're lucky. They don't catch every flounder that swims by like the nets do.

Mr. Fishpicker. My family and I eat the flounder I catch as I refuse to pay the fishmarket $9.99 per pound. It seems ironic that they run the price up there right around Lent.
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  #53  
Old 01-09-2005, 11:40 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BENTROD:
BENNY B,,, DO YOU KNOW WHAT SUCKS???? that summer flounder is closed for us on wed...that means we had 11 days that we could fish for fluke...this is something we used to do YEAR -ROUND,,,, now its a 11 day fishery...well i call that strict regulations THAT WE LIVE WITH!!!!

IT SEEMS TO ME that the trend with the recs is just fill the room,,,,and then pump up the IGNORANT RECS WITH LIQUOR,,, TO MAKE THEM EVEN MORE IGNORANT,,,,like they did again at the meeting up your way,,,, get POOR OL AL TO CRY HIS EYES OUT IN THE PAPER,,,,, this is the trend of RECREATIONAL FISHERIE MAMAGEMENT.....KINDA DISTURBING ISN'T IT <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suppose that does suck Mr. Bentrod. The Fluke season ended for me Months ago, I went out like five times and I think I ended up with 6 keepers for my trouble. I hate when I have to throw back a 16 and 1 quarter inch fluke which seems like all I could catch this year.
How did we get to this point?
Just for the record, I gave up drinking 12 years ago.
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  #54  
Old 01-09-2005, 12:02 PM
BENTROD BENTROD is offline
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BENNY,WHEN people talk about that bay up your way its always the same stand......THE RECS WANT EVERYTHING!!!! how about all the CRYING BY THE RECS,,, on the small bunker operation up there..when i bunker fished in the manasquan area,,, we wouldn't even think about going into the raritan,, which we were perfectly legal to do,,,,,, because it just wasn't worth hearing the CRYING FROM THE RECS..< just for the record,,,i always wanted to go in there ,but always was over-ruled by the higher-ups>SO WE WILLINGLY STAYED OUT.

also i don't realy know too much about fyke -nets because they aren't used much down this way, but i believe they are very affective...and i bet in the bay that the times those nets are legal to use,,, its PROBABLY VERY CLEAN FISHING,,,,meaning very little discard,,, i don't know for sure .......SO ONCE AGAIN THE RECS JUST WANT THAT WHOLE BAY,,,OR THE RECS WANT IT ALL ,,,, LIKE USUAL....AND THEY EVEN WANT 10 MORE % OF THE SUMMER FLOUNDER THAT WAS JUST OPENED FOR 11 DAYS!
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  #55  
Old 01-09-2005, 12:50 PM
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Summer Flounder (called Fluke up this way) and Winter Flounder are like apples and oranges.

I would be willing to bet that there are not even one third as many recreational fisherman targeting Winter Flounder as there are targeting Fluke. The Flounder season for Recs is very short compared to Fluke season and the weather during Flounder season is no way near as nice as it is for Fluke.

Bottom line is the recs don't even come close to the 40 percent of the so called 60/40 split as it is.

And now they want to impose these harsh regulations on recs like 2 fish at 12 inches and a closed Spring season. That's just way too harsh. I would be in agreement that there should be a size and a bag limit per day. That would be fine as it's kind of irresponsible the way it is right now.

But two fish at 12 inches. What are we supposed to do with that, make one sandwich for me, my wife and my Son to split?

It would be a shame because I enjoy catching the fish and treating my family to a tasty treasure fom the sea. I will not pay what it costs to go out on my boat or anyone elses plus buy the bait, chum, ice and rigging materials needed to fish for two fish.
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Old 01-09-2005, 02:51 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BENTROD:
AND THEY EVEN WANT 10 MORE % OF THE SUMMER FLOUNDER THAT WAS JUST OPENED FOR 11 DAYS! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes people push for a 50/50 split even. you ***** that that is greedy and tell me that the recs are the problem and that the comms have no culpability in todays fishery problems.

the recs caught 40 percent in the course of the whole summer long season and even if you play the payback card we'll call it 50.

from what you said the comm 60 percent haul was closed after 11 days. so even if overages push that to a 50/50 split you did it in 11 days when it took recs all season. but nets aren't prone to causing overfishing and our CRYING about the damage isn't warranted. that is really saying something

p.s. i don't really spend much time fluking and other than a rare charter i really have no motivation to care. it's just the point that this makes is such a perfect example of the mindless attitude some have. it carries over into other fisheries and is as clear as day.
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  #57  
Old 01-09-2005, 04:12 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by livetofish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BENTROD:
AND THEY EVEN WANT 10 MORE % OF THE SUMMER FLOUNDER THAT WAS JUST OPENED FOR 11 DAYS! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes people push for a 50/50 split even. you ***** that that is greedy and tell me that the recs are the problem and that the comms have no culpability in todays fishery problems.

the recs caught 40 percent in the course of the whole summer long season and even if you play the payback card we'll call it 50.

from what you said the comm 60 percent haul was closed after 11 days. so even if overages push that to a 50/50 split you did it in 11 days when it took recs all season. but nets aren't prone to causing overfishing and our CRYING about the damage isn't warranted. that is really saying something

p.s. i don't really spend much time fluking and other than a rare charter i really have no motivation to care. it's just the point that this makes is such a perfect example of the mindless attitude some have. it carries over into other fisheries and is as clear as day. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LTF and others I don't think you understand how our season works. Our quota is split into seasons with overages taken off of the following season. PAYBACKS you might see us mentioning that from time to time. Also me are very heavily monitored more then you could ever dream. We have to " call in " to the state and tell them that we are unloading. We have our regular trip reporting. Plus the granddaddy of them all is the docks are covered with enforcement. The enforcement has the power to take a trip and which could lead to the loss of your FLUKE permit. If we are over 1 pound we are guilty in the eyes of the law.
Now when and if there was any real way of monitoring your sector then you have a realistic beef. But until that day I would be real real happy and not complain one little bit.
I would go as far as saying that the rec quota has gone over every year since the quota system has been put into place.
I still would like to know how the total catch number was found for the rec sector. That is nothing more then a guess.
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Old 01-09-2005, 08:36 PM
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the only accurate data that i know of for the rec sector is that all for hire boats must fill out the same trip reports with poundages and dealer numbers if any are legally sold. other than that surveys are used to fill in the rest, it's pretty inaccurate but how do we make it more accurate, mandatory weigh stations like deer? it's too much expense and will never happen.
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  #59  
Old 01-09-2005, 08:49 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by livetofish:
the only accurate data that i know of for the rec sector is that all for hire boats must fill out the same trip reports with poundages and dealer numbers if any are legally sold. other than that surveys are used to fill in the rest, it's pretty inaccurate but how do we make it more accurate, mandatory weigh stations like deer? it's too much expense and will never happen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dealers numbers could you explain ????? Like why would a boat for hire have a Dealers number ??
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Old 01-09-2005, 11:02 PM
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if we have a comm permit for some species we and we sell the fish the boat has to provide a dealer number to whom we sold it.
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