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  #121  
Old 01-07-2004, 03:38 PM
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Tuesday, January 6, 2004

DuPont bids to put neutralized liquid into Del. River
By LAWRENCE HAJNA
Courier-Post Staff
CARNEYS POINT


The U.S. Army is considering shipping the byproduct of a neutralized Cold War-era nerve agent to a DuPont waste treatment plant here in Salem County for discharge into the Delaware River.

The liquid VX nerve agent, one of the deadliest substances ever made, will first be rendered nonlethal at the Newport Chemical Depot in west central Indiana, where it's been stockpiled for decades.

In Newport, the agent will be neutralized with hot water and sodium hydroxide to form hydrolysate, a caustic compound scientists liken to household drain cleaner.

If brought to South Jersey, Dupont would remove any remaining chemicals and discharge the effluent into the river.

DuPont officials stress that it will handle no actual nerve agent and that the effluent discharged into the river would be virtually pure water.

A single drop of VX can cause paralysis and death within minutes. But no materials will be shipped if VX is found at or above 20 parts per billion - the threshold for detectability using current testing methods, said Terry Arthur, spokeswoman for the Newport depot.

"What we want to make perfectly clear is that we are not shipping nerve agent for treatment anywhere," Arthur said Monday.

DuPont has submitted a proposal to treat 2 to 4 million gallons of hydrolysate. The process would likely take more than a year. The earliest a contract could be awarded is Jan. 21. ADVERTISEMENT - CLICK TO ENLARGE OR VISIT WEBSITE

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Shipments would not start until late summer or early fall, after extensive testing of the neutralization process, Arthur said.

Shipments would likely occur in tanker trucks or using a combination of tanker trucks and trains, she said.

The military has accelerated chemical weapons destruction plans to reduce risks from terrorist attacks as a result of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. The Newport depot was the only place VX was ever made and has been storing 1,200 tons of the nerve agent since 1969, when President Nixon issued a moratorium on production of chemical weapons.

Final treatment would be handled by Secure Environmental Treatment, the arm of DuPont that handles wastewater treatment for the company as well as wastes from other companies. It is the nation's largest commercial hazardous wastewater treatment plant.

Secure Environmental Treatment is treating the hydrolysate byproduct of neutralized mustard agent from the Army's Aberdeen Chemical Agent Disposal Facility in Maryland.

DuPont would not disclose the amount it is seeking to handle the materials. Military procurement rules prohibit disclosure of the contract amount until it is actually awarded, Arthur said.

The public should have no concerns about the plan, said John Strait, plant manager for the Chambers Works site.

The company uses microscopic bugs to "chew up and get rid of the chemicals in any wastes we get," he said. "If we found any issues, our policy is that we wouldn't take it."

The Army and its contractor at Newport, Parsons Technologies, gave up on a plan to send the hydrolysate to sewer mains in Dayton, Ohio, because of public backlash.

Perma-Fix, a potential subcontractor, was to be paid $9 million to treat 330,000 gallons of the material and discharge it to sewers.

But activists sued to block the plan, and local officials threatened to take away a permit the company needed to stay in business.

Maya van Rossum of the Delaware Riverkeeper Network, an environmental group that works to protect the river, was shocked to learn of the DuPont plan.

"This sounds like a very dangerous process with the possibility of harm to the river, to aquatic life in the river and to the people who depend on the river," she said.

Van Rossum criticized the Army for not being more up front with the plan and demanded public hearings be scheduled.

At DuPont's request, the Army placed a legal notice in Salem County's local paper, Today's Sunbeam, last month, Arthur said. The notice is not actually required until the contract is awarded, she added.

"In this case, DuPont, which is a contender, decided to let the public know what's going on," Arthur said.

The legal notice refers to the transportation of liquid effluent from the treatment of chemical agents at the Newport depot but makes no mention of the nerve agent.

" Who is really killin the fish " Fishpicker wants to know !!!! your thoughts????????

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  #122  
Old 01-07-2004, 03:43 PM
Respectfully Yours Respectfully Yours is offline
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Good post FP. If its SO pure why don't they bottle and sell it?! Agent Orange Energy Drink!
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  #123  
Old 01-08-2004, 06:24 PM
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Picker, you don't take me for some idiot do you?

Hey, maybe I am, but, you see Picker...

Your facts state that they are allowed 20 fish per week...BUT..

YOU DON'T STATE HOW BIG THOSE FISH HAVE TO BE...
( You know, what's preventing these guys from dumping 20 smaller fish when they catch 20 BIGGER fish?)

Now Picker, if they were allowed X amount of pounds....it wouldn't make a difference.

LBS are LBS picker, and 20 fish can be LARGE or small...

Keep trying Picker....tic...toc...your fishing industry is on limited time....

Some very good points are made by some of you above, about pollution etc...etc...

I never stated that the whole problem is caused by comms alone...recs have a big part of the blame to share, along with the $$$$ grabbing, non-caring politicos..etc...etc..etc..
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  #124  
Old 01-08-2004, 11:31 PM
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Hey CnR here is something for you to ponder over .
At tonights NJ fishery meeting , during the enforcement report , It was reported that Two different Party boats had coolers with short Tog in them .
Why wasn't the captain and crew held responsible for this ? If there are small fish on a commercial boat the operator/owner gets server fines and sanctions placed on the vessel and captain .
This is a prime example of the double standard , No fines to the boat or crew ? that is wrong . Shorts are shorts and over the limit is just flat out greed . What is any body gonna do with 31 tog thats a load of fish . 25 legal 6 shorts . The numbers were very close in the other case . Same results . NOTHING !!!!!!!!!

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  #125  
Old 01-09-2004, 03:29 PM
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Good point Picker...I ..uhhhmmm.. dislike those greedy, non caring ...well.. you know what I mean....as much as the destructive non caring comms...

Point well taken...that is a terrible selfish behavior demonstrated by recs as it is by comms.

I am stating again, that there is a large percentage of recs., who are a BIG part of the problem...but that does not absolve you comms. from past and present "FACTS".

Did you hear the one about Salmon...don't eat a portion more than once in four months...

It seems that these fish (mostly fish farms) are fed a meal made up of forage fish...you know..bunker etc...which accumulate PCB's and Dioxin...you get the picture...

Facts Fishpicker, not fiction...

Hello MulletKing...

I am willing to bet that Bass and Bluefish caught around these parts are full of PCB's and Dioxin, and ....

but I have been saying that all along...
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  #126  
Old 01-09-2004, 04:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CATCHnRELEASE:


Did you hear the one about Salmon...don't eat a portion more than once in four months...

It seems that these fish (mostly fish farms) are fed a meal made up of forage fish...you know..bunker etc...which accumulate PCB's and Dioxin...you get the picture...

Facts Fishpicker, not fiction...


Geez, I don't eat much salmon but I eat local fish about 4 times a week, maybe all of those PCB's & Dioxins is why I have such magical powers, I am running low on Eye of Newt though.

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  #127  
Old 01-09-2004, 04:06 PM
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Come on Hocus...

There is a warning about local Bass, blues, flounder etc...

Local fish are probably more contaminated than Pacific Salmon...

Hudson river is the Capital of PCB's..

Passaic river, the capital of Dioxins...

FACTS, FACTS....can't dispute them...
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  #128  
Old 01-09-2004, 05:26 PM
HocusPocus HocusPocus is offline
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quote:
Originally posted by CATCHnRELEASE:
Come on Hocus...

There is a warning about local Bass, blues, flounder etc...

Local fish are probably more contaminated than Pacific Salmon...

Hudson river is the Capital of PCB's..

Passaic river, the capital of Dioxins...

FACTS, FACTS....can't dispute them...


FACTS, FACTS.... can't dispute them.
wanna bet, 25 years ago when I was first married we ate fish 7 nights a week for a year because we couldn't afford anything else. Now we eat it about 4 times a week because we love it. I'm pretty sure I ate a couple of tons of fish in my life, I raised my kids on fish, as a matter of fact my wife is downstairs cooking me a squid stew as I type, yum yum.
No ill effects from eating all of this fish, FACT, FACT, FACT.
Another Fact, I had 2 brothers and 2 sisters, none of them ate fish and they all died younger than what I am right now, I think I will continue to eat my fish and disregard your propaganda BS.

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  #129  
Old 01-09-2004, 05:40 PM
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Hp can you send some of that stew over , I'm freezen I went for a 5 hour swim today .

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  #130  
Old 01-09-2004, 05:44 PM
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Good for you and your wife...

But, one example does not make a good scientific fact...( do not know how old you are, etc...)

Sorry about your siblings, but as you know, meat and other products are also full of chemicals and poisons.

Maybe other products have more poisons than fish...could be...
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  #131  
Old 01-09-2004, 06:09 PM
HocusPocus HocusPocus is offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Fish Picker:
Hp can you send some of that stew over , I'm freezing I went for a 5 hour swim today .

_Fish Picker_
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A 5 hour swim??? what are you nuts, besides being freezing cold what about all of those PCB's in the water, if the cold doesn't kill you they will, if you start glowing in the dark I will know why.

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  #132  
Old 01-09-2004, 06:11 PM
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Organic Vegetarian How about that CnR ????

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  #133  
Old 01-09-2004, 07:03 PM
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Not at all Picker...

I eat meat, fish, poultry etc...but, small portions, and NOT often...moderation, information, and vigilance, and still who the h**l knows...

Man, I love brocoli thou...no wonder I didn't vote for Mr. Bush.
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  #134  
Old 01-09-2004, 08:33 PM
HocusPocus HocusPocus is offline
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Hey CnR, here's something for you to read, it's a pretty good read until you read the last sentence, then I wanted to

This is the best paragraph here:
But the Food and Drug Administration said the levels of pollutants found in salmon are too low for serious concern. The agency urged Americans not to let the new research, reported Thursday in the journal Science, frighten them into a diet change.

Farm-Raised Salmon Linked to Pollutants

By LAURAN NEERGAARD, AP Medical Writer

WASHINGTON - Farm-raised salmon contain significantly more dioxins and other potentially cancer-causing pollutants than do salmon caught in the wild, says a major study that tested contaminants in fish bought around the world.

Salmon farmed in Northern Europe had the most contaminants, followed by North America and Chile, according to the study released Thursday. It blames the feed used on fish farms for concentrating the ocean pollutants.

Eating more than a meal of farm-raised salmon per month, depending on its country of origin, could slightly increase the risk of getting cancer later in life, researchers conclude. They urge consumers to buy wild salmon and recommend that farmers change fish feed.

But the Food and Drug Administration said the levels of pollutants found in salmon are too low for serious concern. The agency urged Americans not to let the new research, reported Thursday in the journal Science, frighten them into a diet change.

The debate is sure to confuse consumers, who long have been told to eat fish at least twice a week because it helps prevent heart disease. Indeed, salmon is usually listed as a top choice because it is particularly high in heart-healthy omega-3 fatty acids and low in a completely different seafood contaminant, mercury.

Moreover, most farm-raised salmon sold in the United States comes from Chile — and the pollutant level in it was not too much higher than that found in some wild-caught salmon.

The study "will likely over-alarm people in this country," said Eric Rimm of the Harvard School of Public Health, a specialist on nutrition and chronic disease. "To alarm people away from fish because of some potential, at this point undocumented, risk of long-term cancer — that does worry me."

The study tested salmon raw, with the skin on. Removing the skin and grilling it removes a significant amount of PCBs, dioxins and other pollutants stored in fish fat, the FDA noted.

The average dioxin level in farmed-raised salmon was as 11 times higher than that in wild salmon — 1.88 parts per billion compared with 0.17 ppb. For PCBs, the average was 36.6 ppb in farm-raised salmon and 4.75 in wild salmon.

The government does not have one set level of dioxins and PCBs that is considered safe in foods.

"We are certainly not telling people not to eat fish. ... We're telling them to eat less farmed salmon," said David Carpenter of the University at Albany, N.Y., who tested 700 salmon from around the world.

In setting his consumption advice, Carpenter cited Environmental Protection Agency guidelines that are far stricter than the FDA's legal limits.

Farmed salmon eat lots of fish oil and meal made from just a few species of ocean fish, which concentrates the contaminants they are exposed to, while wild salmon eat a greater variety, Carpenter explained.

The salmon farming industry points out that all the pollutant levels are well within the FDA's legal limits and says other foods eaten far more often, such as beef, are greater sources of exposure.

Raising salmon in floating pens is an industry that began just two decades ago but has helped the fish's popularity to soar, turning it from a seasonal to a year-round commodity. More than half the world's salmon now is farmed. Farm-raised salmon sells for about $4 or $5 a pound compared with $15 for wild salmon, said Alex Trent of the trade group Salmon of the Americas.

"These fish don't have to be contaminated," said Jane Houlihan of the Environmental Working Group, which wants salmon farms to switch the feed they use.

Trent said many farmers in the United States, Canada and Chile are slowly replacing some of the fish oil in salmon feed with soybean and canola oil to address the pollutants.

"PCB levels are coming down 10 to 20 percent a year. Every year we take more steps," he said.

Farm-raised salmon contained significantly higher concentrations of 13 pollutants, including dioxins, released when industrial waste is burned, and PCBs, once widely used as insulating material, according to the study.

Animals absorb those pollutants through the environment, storing them in fat that people then eat. High levels are believed to increase the risk of certain cancers and, in pregnant or breast-feeding women, harm the developing brains of fetuses and infants.

One in two Americans will die of cardiovascular disease, a far bigger risk than the cancer concern, said nutritionist Alice Lichtenstein of the Agriculture Department's Human Nutrition Research Center at Tufts University.

Still, "this was a beautiful study" that does raise a concern that needs more attention, she said. "The bottom-line message is to continue to eat fish but consume a variety of different types."

As for the geographic difference in contaminant levels, ocean pollution follows a similar pattern. Europe was industrialized before North and then South America, and presumably each region uses salmon feed made of local ocean fish.

The study was funded by the Pew Charitable Trusts.

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  #135  
Old 01-09-2004, 09:02 PM
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Look Hocus..you believe the Food and "Druged" Administration...Shehhh...

I don't believe...I believe in the Gov. taxing and robbing us to death...
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