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Commercial - Recreational - Conservation Issues An open forum for the exchange of ideas and positions on current and proposed regulations in saltwater fishing and conservation.

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  #16  
Old 11-08-2013, 08:49 AM
CharlesT CharlesT is offline
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Default Re: Striped Bass Management - ASMFC to take action

The discussion surfaces elsewhere (Surfcasters Journal) .... http://www.XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.com/st...charles-witek/
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  #17  
Old 11-08-2013, 08:49 AM
Kroc Kroc is offline
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Default Re: Striped Bass Management - ASMFC to take action

I really feel whether you fish by boat or by surf the amount of time you fish and the amount of fish you catch determines the level of responsibility you have to preserve the species. A recreational boater who goes out 5 times a week and limits out, should be responsible enough to release a good portion of his catch.
Due to work, I have limited time to fish. I haven't taken a striped bass home in 2 years, and probably have kept a half dozen over the last 10 years. With that being said, I don't want someone telling me I'm killing the striper population if I keep that one 40' fish I catch once in a blue moon. Thats just my take.
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  #18  
Old 11-08-2013, 09:41 AM
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Default Re: Striped Bass Management - ASMFC to take action

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The discussion surfaces elsewhere (Surfcasters Journal) .... http://www.XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.com/st...charles-witek/
Charles, It's Bob D's policy regarding X-ing out links to certain other sites.

If I have time, I'll try to get permission to post that article as I read it offline in an email sent to me.

That said, feel free to PM anyone who wants the link to the article.
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  #19  
Old 11-08-2013, 09:48 AM
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Default Re: Striped Bass Management - ASMFC to take action

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I really feel whether you fish by boat or by surf the amount of time you fish and the amount of fish you catch determines the level of responsibility you have to preserve the species. A recreational boater who goes out 5 times a week and limits out, should be responsible enough to release a good portion of his catch.
Due to work, I have limited time to fish. I haven't taken a striped bass home in 2 years, and probably have kept a half dozen over the last 10 years. With that being said, I don't want someone telling me I'm killing the striper population if I keep that one 40' fish I catch once in a blue moon. Thats just my take.
I agree with this sentiment, though there is the multiple effect of so many anglers' impact on the fishery.

1 commercial can catch a thousand fish, but if 10000 recreational boats keep 1, that's 10 times the effect of the 1 commercial fisherman.

Not saying that Comms only keep a thousand or aren't putting a dent on the population, just using that example to illustrate how fisheries management has to look at the overall 'take'.

What will likely happen is nothing for next year, then strict clampdown on limits for 2015, IMO. Hopefully it's not too late to avoid a total collapse of the fishery.
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  #20  
Old 11-08-2013, 10:12 AM
glen6501 glen6501 is offline
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Default Re: Striped Bass Management - ASMFC to take action

Wow, when I posted that article, I wasn't expecting that much conversation but I'm glad there are a lot of comments and passion. It would be great if someone from the NJ fish and game monitored these discussions to see what people have to say. We are only a small population of the NJ fishermen but I would be willing to bet that most people would agree with a min/max limit.
To be honest, I'm new to surf fishing and so far, everything I've caught has been returned to the water but I did buy a bonus tag this year. I MAY keep a fish to eat but now that I think about it, I don't know why I would ever keep 2 much less 3 fish! So in hindsight, it was stupid for me to get the bonus tag.
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  #21  
Old 11-08-2013, 03:32 PM
donhans donhans is offline
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Default Re: Striped Bass Management - ASMFC to take action

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Have to respectfully disagree, Donhans. The fact that the commercial market has a bigger impact than rec fishermen isn't a reason to throw your hands up and do nothing. If 100 guys on this board released 100 fish that they might have kept, and those fish lay several million eggs, how is that a bad thing? And I don't see how recreational boat fishermen, who can follow the birds, park themselves on top of the fish and hammer cows, aren't impacting the bass population negatively. That being said, you are right about the commercial impact. The fact that bunker/menhaden populations are at historic lows isn't helping either, thank you Omega Protein. Bottom line is that if WE, the guys who love fishing for stripers, continue to sit on our hands, this is going to get worse quickly.
\

Not saying nothing should be done. Just saying making the keeper size more complicated for recreational anglers is not going to accomplish anything.

Here's the money quote from the article; "Currently, on three summer weekdays, some 2,500 commercially-licensed Massachusetts fishermen are authorized to each catch 30 stripers a day at 34 inches or longer (and five fish on Sundays). During this summer?s season, it only took three weeks to take the allotted quota of 997,869 pounds. Yet more than 600,000 people fish recreationally for stripers in Massachusetts, whose reported landings have fallen by nearly 75 per cent since 2006"

Bottom line for me is that I go fishing at least 5 times or more for every keeper I get. When I get a keeper, I take it home and eat it, and If I happen to get 2, I take them both home to eat, because I already put in 15 or more hours fishing to keep that one or 2 fish. Changing regs to further limit my paltry "take" of stripers each year is, IMHO, ridiculous.

I know many guys on this forum catch a lot more than me, and recreational boaters do also. But it's nothing compared to the commercial catch. If it was illegal to sell or serve stripers all along the coast (as it is in NJ), the problem would be solved.

Bottom line is that WE, the guys who love fishing for stripers, are the ones getting screwed. The government likes to take the easy way out and mess with the recreational angler, when the real problems lie elsewhere.
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  #22  
Old 11-08-2013, 07:03 PM
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billwrubel billwrubel is online now
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Default Re: Striped Bass Management - ASMFC to take action

Bottom line, in all things, "you can only do what you can do". Whether efforts by recreational fisherman are only minimal, they are something. We can also work to emphasize the point to others. Not to get to over the top, but Rosa Parks was one woman who refused to give up her seat....and ......so again, all we can do is what we can do. Failure to try is no reward and does nothing to address the problem
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  #23  
Old 11-08-2013, 07:32 PM
bluesrule bluesrule is offline
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Default Re: Striped Bass Management - ASMFC to take action

I don't think the big bad government is out to get the recreational surfcaster. In fact, the Atlantic Striped Bass Conservation Act of 1984 was a federal law that probably saved the fish from disappearing entirely. I also don't have a problem with anyone eating a fish once in a while. That being said, I sure as hell wouldn't mind if "catch, photograph and release" becomes more popular among fishermen.
For those of you not familiar with the organization, Stripers Forever has been working to have states (especially Massachusetts) designate striped bass strictly a game fish. Their most recent report on the health of the fishery is frightening. Read this- if you're not already concerned, you will be. http://www.stripersforever.org/?p=899
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  #24  
Old 11-08-2013, 08:59 PM
donhans donhans is offline
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Default Re: Striped Bass Management - ASMFC to take action

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Originally Posted by bluesrule View Post
I don't think the big bad government is out to get the recreational surfcaster. In fact, the Atlantic Striped Bass Conservation Act of 1984 was a federal law that probably saved the fish from disappearing entirely. I also don't have a problem with anyone eating a fish once in a while. That being said, I sure as hell wouldn't mind if "catch, photograph and release" becomes more popular among fishermen.
For those of you not familiar with the organization, Stripers Forever has been working to have states (especially Massachusetts) designate striped bass strictly a game fish. Their most recent report on the health of the fishery is frightening. Read this- if you're not already concerned, you will be. http://www.stripersforever.org/?p=899
Blues, with respect, your reply seems a bit patronizing in tone. I am already concerned, and my point is simply that the government will always take the easy way out. It is much easier to pass token regulations for sport fishermen than take on businesses that make campaign contributions.

I also appreciate you not having a problem with me eating the fish I catch, but for me it's one of the primary reasons I fish - I LOVE fresh striper.

Your link to Stripers Forever only reinforces my point. To quote from the link you posted; "We believe the reason for the dearth of large stripers in the population and the highly restrictive catch-and-keep regulations imposed on recreational anglers is because the commercial fishery has been allowed to indiscriminately target mature bass along the coast, while at the same time netting young fish in nursery areas. The cumulative effect of the commercial effort is, in a word, overkill."

So the site you posted agrees with me 100%, saying that the ridiculous regulations on us is caused by commercial fishermen basically doing whatever they want. And the first link that started this thread said the exact same thing.

I don't even know what we are arguing about anymore.
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  #25  
Old 11-09-2013, 09:51 AM
Kroc Kroc is offline
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Default Re: Striped Bass Management - ASMFC to take action

I think if the striped bass regulations were changed banning commercial fisherman from targeting the species, and ONLY catch and release fishing allowed for recreational anglers, then we would see who really loves the striped bass and is concerned for its survival.
This would eliminate trophy hunters, internet heroes, report chasers, spot burnings, muggings ect......
Only the angler who really fishes for the love of nature would be left.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not any better than the masses, I would love to hang a trophy on the wall some day, but its getting to the point where if you take a striper home you're almost treated like a murderer.
I really don't know what the answer is, but until the regulations are changed(and they probably should be) I think its wrong to criticize someone for keeping a legally caught fish from the surf. Recreational boaters should have the decency to let some go, because, as someone pointed out are catching way more.
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  #26  
Old 11-10-2013, 07:21 AM
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Default Re: Striped Bass Management - ASMFC to take action

Big problem in the 'recreational' area are the charter boat guys. "Problem" in the sense that they will cry "any change will put me out of business".

But I just don't see chartering for meat fishing high on the priority list when discussing preservation of such an important coast wide fishery. Of course, it's not my business either.

While, in my experience, most true recs don't put all that much of a hurting on the fishery, the charter and serious rec boats in the NY bight area do, with the drag and drop bunker fishing, jig fishing on schools, trolling umbrellas and bunker spoons, it's clear that of the recreational catch, those account for the vast majority of the recreational catch.

In the spring/early summer when the bunker schools are thick, drag and drop fishing yields many *limits* which for a 6 pack charter, with bonus tags, of 18 fish a trip. Sometimes morning and night. One boat can (legally) do 36 fish a day this way, perhaps more if the captain and mate are included. And these are all larger breeding fish.

That's counted against our "recreational" quota, which I think is wrong. If you're chartering IMO it's a commercial operation, but that opens a whole other 'can of worms' in the regulatory mix.

Geesh, my head hurts thinking about it.

Bottom line though is that some clampdown is coming, either voluntarily or, if they wait too long, by a collapse of the fishery.
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  #27  
Old 11-10-2013, 11:17 PM
donhans donhans is offline
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Default Re: Striped Bass Management - ASMFC to take action

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Originally Posted by RobS View Post
Big problem in the 'recreational' area are the charter boat guys. "Problem" in the sense that they will cry "any change will put me out of business".

But I just don't see chartering for meat fishing high on the priority list when discussing preservation of such an important coast wide fishery. Of course, it's not my business either.

While, in my experience, most true recs don't put all that much of a hurting on the fishery, the charter and serious rec boats in the NY bight area do, with the drag and drop bunker fishing, jig fishing on schools, trolling umbrellas and bunker spoons, it's clear that of the recreational catch, those account for the vast majority of the recreational catch.

In the spring/early summer when the bunker schools are thick, drag and drop fishing yields many *limits* which for a 6 pack charter, with bonus tags, of 18 fish a trip. Sometimes morning and night. One boat can (legally) do 36 fish a day this way, perhaps more if the captain and mate are included. And these are all larger breeding fish.

That's counted against our "recreational" quota, which I think is wrong. If you're chartering IMO it's a commercial operation, but that opens a whole other 'can of worms' in the regulatory mix.

Geesh, my head hurts thinking about it.

Bottom line though is that some clampdown is coming, either voluntarily or, if they wait too long, by a collapse of the fishery.
Interesting info, never thought about the charters, and didn't know they were considered recreational.

But its still hard to wrap my head around the quote from the original article about commercial - "During this summer?s season, it only took three weeks to take the allotted quota of 997,869 pounds."

It took only 3 weeks to take almost a MILLION lbs of stripers. And this just in Massachusetts.
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  #28  
Old 11-11-2013, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: Striped Bass Management - ASMFC to take action

yes, almost a million pounds and that's why they have a limit on the season.

it's not that comms can't wipe out the fish, they are indeed very efficient in doing so.

but legal comms are regulated, and to keep their licenses etc, most stay within the law, their catches monitored, and regulated.

poachers and recs are a different story, and it's just a matter of scale of numbers.

one casual boat does this in a couple of hours:



but that's only ONE boat out of hundreds doing the same thing at the same time, every day of the season



Fisheries management has to take everything into account, with little hard data.

What they can see and track are trends, and the trends are clearly down, that the stock is declining...fairly rapidly.

edit: guess I can't hot link pictures over to another specific site ... at least I can't see them here right now.

I'll fix this later.
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Last edited by RobS : 11-11-2013 at 09:48 AM. Reason: note on pics.
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  #29  
Old 11-12-2013, 11:06 AM
Kroc Kroc is offline
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Default Re: Striped Bass Management - ASMFC to take action

A good starting point would be granting the striper game fish status. No commercial harvest, see how that goes for a few years and then re-access the regulations after that. At the very least it would be another million lbs. of fish for recreational anglers to catch.
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  #30  
Old 11-13-2013, 08:49 AM
bluesrule bluesrule is offline
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Default Re: Striped Bass Management - ASMFC to take action

Donhans: I haven't been out here in a week or so- just saw your post in response to mine. I apologize if I came across as patronizing. I guess I'm a little too sensitive re. civil servants etc. (I have family members who are scientists and gov't workers who work hard for noble reasons and not much $).
I'm sure we are both interested in the same thing: keeping the striper fishery healthy so we can continue to enjoy fishing for them! And eating them, too! (I love them like you do)
Again, sorry for the negative tone.
Jim
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