Home

 
     HOME     ARTICLES     Frank DAIGNAULT     TROPHY RIGS     CONTENTS     FAQs     FLY FISHING     OFF ROAD 4 X 4     STRIPED BASS    SURFCASTING
 
Go Back   StriperSurf Forums > Main Forums > MAIN FORUM

MAIN FORUM We want You! - This is the place for general discussion of fishing for striped bass, bluefish, albies, weakfish, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-05-2004, 07:20 PM
hayswalt hayswalt is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Ocean City, NJ
Posts: 808
Default

Two articles have recenty come out on this subject as follows:

Anglers need to find alternative plan

Published in the Asbury Park Press 1/31/04


Enthusiasm for the idea of New Jersey taking the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission to court over the loss of the striped bass slot limit should be replaced by support for an alternative.

The ASMFC's striped bass board recently approved Amendment VI to the striped bass management plan without discussion of the fact that New Jersey's slot limit has been eliminated by the action.

This drew heated reaction from some New Jersey fishermen after the meeting, and talk of the state going to court, but there is another way to preserve a slot limit.

The elimination occurred through a technical staff interpretation of a vague, barely identifiable two-sentence public exchange between two commissioners and an administrative move made in the New York division of marine fisheries to remove the word "producer" from its draft copy of Amendment VI.

New Jersey anglers have enjoyed the opportunity to catch one striped bass 24 to less than 28 inches in recent years as a result of a demonstration by the state Division of Fish and Wildlife that, as a "producer" state, it was entitled to harvest fish in the slot.

New Jersey had "producer" status because striped bass are spawned in the Delaware River and bay. Such is the case with Maryland, Virginia and the District of Columbia because of Chesapeake Bay, New York because of the Hudson River and North Carolina because of Albemarle Sound.

Producer states were allowed under the management plan to harvest striped bass as small as 20 inches. States that decided to harvest fish smaller than 20 inches had to take an equivalent cut in quota.

New Jersey management officials were able to convince the ASMFC's board that by increasing the minimum size to 24 inches, and the fact that it did not use all of its 230,000-pound former commercial "bonus" quota it would remain within its overall quota with a slot limit for the Delaware River and bay and coastal waters.

Meanwhile, other states without "producer" status were held to a limit of two striped bass at 28 inches or above and some states elected to have a one-fish limit or some variation above 28 inches. New York, for instance, has one fish at 28 inches for private anglers and two fish for party boat anglers.

It has been suggested that New Jersey should file an appeal with the ASMFC's policy board.

This can be done, but the chances of the policy board reversing the striped bass board are slim. A better idea is to submit a slot limit proposal that would be accepted by the striped board.

New Jersey's biologists should be able to come up with a proposal utilizing the new 310,000-pound bonus quota, coupled with a slot limit of one fish at 24 to 26 inches, and supported by the fact that the Delaware River and bay are producing areas that might satisfy the board.

It might be pointed out to the board that the alternative of going to two fish at 28 inches or larger plus the bonus fish, which would be allowed under the plan, would be a greater strain on the coastal resource than the proposal.

Capt. Tony Bogan, a representative of the United Boatmen, is still concerned about the way the elimination was handled from last February on after the commission had indicated earlier in the winter that there would be no change.

"If the board wants to remove producer status from the management plan, that's within their power," he said. "But do it out in the open, have a discussion and then vote on it."

Bogan said he has seen nothing in the administrative record that would support the elimination.

Some board members say in private that the fact that the board was quiet on the subject of New Jersey losing its slot limit, and voted for Amendment VI without the word "producer" in it, was proof enough that they approved of New Jersey's loss.

If New Jersey's appeal is rejected by the policy board in March, and if no new plan is offered, the state will be found out of compliance by the striped bass board.

In any case, New Jersey fishermen will be able to catch one striper from 24 to less than 28 inches each day in state waters from March 1 until such time as the state Legislature passes a new striped bass law or the ASMFC tires of delays and asks the National Marine Fisheries Service to send in agents to enforce ASMFC rules.

Meanwhile, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, the Potomac River and the Delaware commercial fishery will continue to harvest striped bass as small as 20 inches in length because the ASMFC passed motions protecting their fisheries.


and



Ristori: Slot striper likely to stay until fall

BY AL RISTORI
Star-Ledger Staff

While Amendment 6 to the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC) Striped Bass Management Plan doesn't allow for the slot striper that has become so popular in New Jersey, ASMFC commissioner Tom Fote is confident the state will be able to put off the day of reckoning for quite awhile -- perhaps into the fall.

There didn't appear to be any such problem when the amendment was being debated, but after approval there was language added that eliminated special consideration of producer areas even though the Chesapeake states were exempted so they could continue catching 18-inch stripers. New Jersey had producer status due to the Delaware and Hudson river stocks, and we could have had separate regulations allowing small bass in those rivers plus adjoining bays. State officials didn't take advantage of that situation, and made law enforcement a lot easier by maintaining the same regulations statewide.

That used to be two stripers at a 28-inch minimum size, but several years ago there was concern about too many larger bass being landed so New Jersey used its producer status to allow a single slot striper from 24 to less than 28 inches along with just one of 28 inches or more. Many anglers prefer the smaller bass for eating, and the slot has become a welcome addition.

Under the latest regulations, we must revert to two bass at the 28-inch minimum, and the state's delegation took a beating at the December ASMFC meeting in Manhattan when only Pennsylvania supported its effort to obtain an exemption. Unless there's a drastic change in the ASMFC, the slot is certainly out next year, though Fote is confident we can postpone the seemingly inevitable well into the season. Fote, the Governor's Appointee to ASMFC, said Division of Fish and Wildlife chief Marty McHugh is preparing a proposal for the next ASMFC meeting in an attempt to demonstrate conservation equivalency savings by various means.

For instance, the state will forgo taking the increase in our Trophy Tag allocation (which is derived from the former commercial catch) that we're entitled to since the amendment boosted the coastal commercial quota by 42 percent.

Chances are this offer will be turned down and New Jersey will be voted out of compliance. Yet, that's not the end of the story since there's an appeal process involved before the fishery can be shut down -- and also the likelihood of a legal challenge by the state, which can't act quickly in any case because the striped bass is the only species controlled by the Legislature rather than the Division, and the legislative process takes time.

It's quite likely all this could stretch into the fall, and it seems certain the spring fishery is safe from change.

from the first article, what concerns me most:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some board members say in private that the fact that the board was quiet on the subject of New Jersey losing its slot limit, and voted for Amendment VI without the word "producer" in it, was proof enough that they approved of New Jersey's loss.

If New Jersey's appeal is rejected by the policy board in March, and if no new plan is offered, the state will be found out of compliance by the striped bass board.

In any case, New Jersey fishermen will be able to catch one striper from 24 to less than 28 inches each day in state waters from March 1 until such time as the state Legislature passes a new striped bass law or the ASMFC tires of delays and asks the National Marine Fisheries Service to send in agents to enforce ASMFC rules. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I borrowed this quote from another site and I couldn't have said it better myself:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amendment 6 is quite clear - 2 @ 28" /day - period. The ASMFC was quite clear in response to NJ's proposal to continue the slot - NO. Amendment 6 was put in effect 1/1/2004 - the fact that NJ still is planning on fishing the pseudo "slot" means NJ is fully intent on fishing out of compliance. I hope the ASMFC takes action when that first fish under 28" that is kept. Also, seeing as how the fishing out of compliance is not just premeditated, but announced in public media, the ASMFC should take serious action. What's the point of having the ASMFC if states can still do whatever they want?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I hope Al Ristori and Tom Fote know what they're doing here and the implications. I sure would hate to fish out of compliance this year and find NJ CLOSED for stripers in 2005.

Thumbing your nose at the ASMFC can be very dangerous.

In short, this tactic makes me very nervous.

How about you?

Walt

[This message was edited by hayswalt on 02-05-04 at 06:34 PM.]
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-05-2004, 07:20 PM
hayswalt hayswalt is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Ocean City, NJ
Posts: 808
Default

Two articles have recenty come out on this subject as follows:

Anglers need to find alternative plan

Published in the Asbury Park Press 1/31/04


Enthusiasm for the idea of New Jersey taking the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission to court over the loss of the striped bass slot limit should be replaced by support for an alternative.

The ASMFC's striped bass board recently approved Amendment VI to the striped bass management plan without discussion of the fact that New Jersey's slot limit has been eliminated by the action.

This drew heated reaction from some New Jersey fishermen after the meeting, and talk of the state going to court, but there is another way to preserve a slot limit.

The elimination occurred through a technical staff interpretation of a vague, barely identifiable two-sentence public exchange between two commissioners and an administrative move made in the New York division of marine fisheries to remove the word "producer" from its draft copy of Amendment VI.

New Jersey anglers have enjoyed the opportunity to catch one striped bass 24 to less than 28 inches in recent years as a result of a demonstration by the state Division of Fish and Wildlife that, as a "producer" state, it was entitled to harvest fish in the slot.

New Jersey had "producer" status because striped bass are spawned in the Delaware River and bay. Such is the case with Maryland, Virginia and the District of Columbia because of Chesapeake Bay, New York because of the Hudson River and North Carolina because of Albemarle Sound.

Producer states were allowed under the management plan to harvest striped bass as small as 20 inches. States that decided to harvest fish smaller than 20 inches had to take an equivalent cut in quota.

New Jersey management officials were able to convince the ASMFC's board that by increasing the minimum size to 24 inches, and the fact that it did not use all of its 230,000-pound former commercial "bonus" quota it would remain within its overall quota with a slot limit for the Delaware River and bay and coastal waters.

Meanwhile, other states without "producer" status were held to a limit of two striped bass at 28 inches or above and some states elected to have a one-fish limit or some variation above 28 inches. New York, for instance, has one fish at 28 inches for private anglers and two fish for party boat anglers.

It has been suggested that New Jersey should file an appeal with the ASMFC's policy board.

This can be done, but the chances of the policy board reversing the striped bass board are slim. A better idea is to submit a slot limit proposal that would be accepted by the striped board.

New Jersey's biologists should be able to come up with a proposal utilizing the new 310,000-pound bonus quota, coupled with a slot limit of one fish at 24 to 26 inches, and supported by the fact that the Delaware River and bay are producing areas that might satisfy the board.

It might be pointed out to the board that the alternative of going to two fish at 28 inches or larger plus the bonus fish, which would be allowed under the plan, would be a greater strain on the coastal resource than the proposal.

Capt. Tony Bogan, a representative of the United Boatmen, is still concerned about the way the elimination was handled from last February on after the commission had indicated earlier in the winter that there would be no change.

"If the board wants to remove producer status from the management plan, that's within their power," he said. "But do it out in the open, have a discussion and then vote on it."

Bogan said he has seen nothing in the administrative record that would support the elimination.

Some board members say in private that the fact that the board was quiet on the subject of New Jersey losing its slot limit, and voted for Amendment VI without the word "producer" in it, was proof enough that they approved of New Jersey's loss.

If New Jersey's appeal is rejected by the policy board in March, and if no new plan is offered, the state will be found out of compliance by the striped bass board.

In any case, New Jersey fishermen will be able to catch one striper from 24 to less than 28 inches each day in state waters from March 1 until such time as the state Legislature passes a new striped bass law or the ASMFC tires of delays and asks the National Marine Fisheries Service to send in agents to enforce ASMFC rules.

Meanwhile, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, the Potomac River and the Delaware commercial fishery will continue to harvest striped bass as small as 20 inches in length because the ASMFC passed motions protecting their fisheries.


and



Ristori: Slot striper likely to stay until fall

BY AL RISTORI
Star-Ledger Staff

While Amendment 6 to the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC) Striped Bass Management Plan doesn't allow for the slot striper that has become so popular in New Jersey, ASMFC commissioner Tom Fote is confident the state will be able to put off the day of reckoning for quite awhile -- perhaps into the fall.

There didn't appear to be any such problem when the amendment was being debated, but after approval there was language added that eliminated special consideration of producer areas even though the Chesapeake states were exempted so they could continue catching 18-inch stripers. New Jersey had producer status due to the Delaware and Hudson river stocks, and we could have had separate regulations allowing small bass in those rivers plus adjoining bays. State officials didn't take advantage of that situation, and made law enforcement a lot easier by maintaining the same regulations statewide.

That used to be two stripers at a 28-inch minimum size, but several years ago there was concern about too many larger bass being landed so New Jersey used its producer status to allow a single slot striper from 24 to less than 28 inches along with just one of 28 inches or more. Many anglers prefer the smaller bass for eating, and the slot has become a welcome addition.

Under the latest regulations, we must revert to two bass at the 28-inch minimum, and the state's delegation took a beating at the December ASMFC meeting in Manhattan when only Pennsylvania supported its effort to obtain an exemption. Unless there's a drastic change in the ASMFC, the slot is certainly out next year, though Fote is confident we can postpone the seemingly inevitable well into the season. Fote, the Governor's Appointee to ASMFC, said Division of Fish and Wildlife chief Marty McHugh is preparing a proposal for the next ASMFC meeting in an attempt to demonstrate conservation equivalency savings by various means.

For instance, the state will forgo taking the increase in our Trophy Tag allocation (which is derived from the former commercial catch) that we're entitled to since the amendment boosted the coastal commercial quota by 42 percent.

Chances are this offer will be turned down and New Jersey will be voted out of compliance. Yet, that's not the end of the story since there's an appeal process involved before the fishery can be shut down -- and also the likelihood of a legal challenge by the state, which can't act quickly in any case because the striped bass is the only species controlled by the Legislature rather than the Division, and the legislative process takes time.

It's quite likely all this could stretch into the fall, and it seems certain the spring fishery is safe from change.

from the first article, what concerns me most:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some board members say in private that the fact that the board was quiet on the subject of New Jersey losing its slot limit, and voted for Amendment VI without the word "producer" in it, was proof enough that they approved of New Jersey's loss.

If New Jersey's appeal is rejected by the policy board in March, and if no new plan is offered, the state will be found out of compliance by the striped bass board.

In any case, New Jersey fishermen will be able to catch one striper from 24 to less than 28 inches each day in state waters from March 1 until such time as the state Legislature passes a new striped bass law or the ASMFC tires of delays and asks the National Marine Fisheries Service to send in agents to enforce ASMFC rules. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I borrowed this quote from another site and I couldn't have said it better myself:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amendment 6 is quite clear - 2 @ 28" /day - period. The ASMFC was quite clear in response to NJ's proposal to continue the slot - NO. Amendment 6 was put in effect 1/1/2004 - the fact that NJ still is planning on fishing the pseudo "slot" means NJ is fully intent on fishing out of compliance. I hope the ASMFC takes action when that first fish under 28" that is kept. Also, seeing as how the fishing out of compliance is not just premeditated, but announced in public media, the ASMFC should take serious action. What's the point of having the ASMFC if states can still do whatever they want?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I hope Al Ristori and Tom Fote know what they're doing here and the implications. I sure would hate to fish out of compliance this year and find NJ CLOSED for stripers in 2005.

Thumbing your nose at the ASMFC can be very dangerous.

In short, this tactic makes me very nervous.

How about you?

Walt

[This message was edited by hayswalt on 02-05-04 at 06:34 PM.]
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-06-2004, 09:00 PM
hayswalt hayswalt is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Ocean City, NJ
Posts: 808
Default

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-11-2004, 04:10 PM
beachblitz beachblitz is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 49
Default

After everything these "management" buracracies have done against recreational fishermen, I could care less what they say. I hope the State ignores them. Any other state declare stripers a gamefish? What enforcement power do they have anyway? Gonna send in the marshalls or something? Gonna keep the bass south of Cape May this March? I'll volunteer to catch the first slot bass this year.

If the issue was discussed in the open and fairly decided by those responsible, I might feel different. But this was underhanded. Another unfavorable adjective to describe ASMFC. How did the other States know to get special provisions or changes inserted into the plan that was explained as no change, but really was a change?

Maybe I don't put enough effort into watching what gets done by some of these hacks, but I should not have to figure out what is a lie, what is a fact, what is a scientific statistic or based on a dockside chat, etc.

If I'm not clear, I'll spell it out: NMFS, ASMFC and the rest of the so-called resource management buracracy is the problem not the solution and I don't care what they say.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2016 StriperSurf.com, All Rights Reserved