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  #91  
Old 01-13-2010, 02:50 PM
Jon006 Jon006 is offline
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Default Re: Killing the Cow...

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Originally Posted by jinjins5 View Post
How do you way a cow? A boga grip forces you to hold the fish vertically which can be harmful to the fish. Should I bring my triple beam balance out with me when I'm fishing?
Yes I would like to see someone weigh their cow on a triple beam!
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  #92  
Old 01-13-2010, 05:40 PM
joeaugeri joeaugeri is offline
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Default Re: Killing the Cow...

there is no problem weighting a fish in a vertical position, just do it quick. most guys dont get the fish back into the water fast enuff. try sticking your head under water for 5 minutes, then think what the fish goes thru.
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  #93  
Old 01-13-2010, 07:20 PM
bigwillip bigwillip is offline
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Default Re: Killing the Cow...

Throwing my stick onto the fire....

I am one of the believers in the precarious balance that the stripers are in now. I first started surf fishing for stripers in the late 60's. It was difficult to get skunked in those days and everybody fished that way. I am guilty of having to throw out freezer-burned fish despite believing that I was keeping only what I would use. Then the fishing stock crashed. And yes it wasn't just fishing pressure that caused it; however, aggressive management paid off and now we have today's concerns and arguments.

Some of the comments have noted that as an individual they only keep 1 or 2 fish a year so they don't have any impact. But you're not the only one fishing. There are many more surf and boat fishermen today than even 30 yrs. It does add up. I'm not saying never keep a fish but do think hard about about the fish you want to keep.

Fish I have kept historically (since the recovery) are in the 34-38", teen to low 20lb, which I think are probably the best eating. Arguably, they have minimal impact on the spawning biomass when compared to keeping the 'old ladys' unless you deplete a generation. In my experience over the last couple of years there is a generational 'hole' as I have never caught so many 30lbers - still haven't joined the 40lb club - but I am not any in the 20-30lb class. Great majority of fish have been 18-25" and a few 'low end' keepers. Despite a personal best 46.5", 36.5 lb this year, I only kept one fish this year, a 33" 12lber for dinner when we were having all my brothers over that evening.

Enjoy the sport and fish responsibly. Tight lines to you all.
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  #94  
Old 01-14-2010, 01:41 PM
Jon006 Jon006 is offline
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Default Re: Killing the Cow...

That was a great post, thanks!
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  #95  
Old 01-14-2010, 03:08 PM
jahgringo jahgringo is offline
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Default Re: Killing the Cow...

Gonna have to disagree that hanging a fish vertically wouldn't harm it. Fish are suspended in water, weightless, and all of the sudden you got your 40 pound gut pushin out your rear, cant be good. And your full body weight on your lower lip with a claw in it? Talk about cruel hyperextension. Bogeys are for wusses and 5 pounders. Get a cradle like biologists use... and find a way to use the boga for measuring byestander jaw drop.
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  #96  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:05 PM
joeaugeri joeaugeri is offline
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Default Re: Killing the Cow...

again,you only weight a fish for a few seconds( at least i do),you dont hang it for 15 minutes. i have lost track of numerous "cows" i have seen caught,weighted,tagged,and released in under 3 minutes. and we know they survived,because of the tag returns.
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  #97  
Old 01-15-2010, 12:10 PM
Kroc Kroc is offline
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Default Re: Killing the Cow...

[quote=FunPhishing;2330460]Don't wanna start any arguments, but i find it funny how people say they wouldn't kill their 1st 30, 40, 50, 60..... because they don't wanna be the one contributing to killing the fishery. However, they have no problem whatsoever in keeping numerous fish throughout the year because they're gonna eat them. Killing a fish is killing a fish!

In reality what is the difference if you kill a 29 inch female striper or a 50 inch female striper. By killing a smaller fish you are preventing it from reaching the age of maturity where it produces maximum eggs. I would have to agree with this post.
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  #98  
Old 01-20-2010, 12:16 AM
FunPhishing FunPhishing is offline
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Default Re: Killing the Cow...

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Originally Posted by jahgringo View Post
Look at it from a genetic standpoint- A 50 has successfully grown larger than most, its offspring are coming from a proven gene pool. Its akin to hunters systematically taking the largest, most reproductive bucks, a buck of lesser genes takes its place and now the gene pool is worse off. Taking the gene pool down from the top. Wereas nature picks off the worse genes and selects them out. And we have... evolution! Unless you are Palin.
If i'm not mistaken, your agreeing with my logic, correct? If not, please elaborate.
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  #99  
Old 01-21-2010, 02:27 PM
Jon006 Jon006 is offline
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Default Re: Killing the Cow...

In reality what is the difference if you kill a 29 inch female striper or a 50 inch female striper. By killing a smaller fish you are preventing it from reaching the age of maturity where it produces maximum eggs. I would have to agree with this post.[/quote]


I would say from what I have read the 50" Striper is more likely to be female than the 29" fish.
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  #100  
Old 01-21-2010, 06:31 PM
joeaugeri joeaugeri is offline
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Default Re: Killing the Cow...

yes this is true,if you ever watched spawning,the females are all big, 20 lbs and up.the males are much smaller,i would say 24 to 36 inch. think about it, 500,000 eggs!
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  #101  
Old 01-21-2010, 09:35 PM
FunPhishing FunPhishing is offline
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Default Re: Killing the Cow...

I would say from what I have read the 50" Striper is more likely to be female than the 29" fish.[/quote]

Of course they would be. I could be wrong, but i think most, if not all 50"ers are female; however, the 29" can't grow to 50" if we kill them when their 29". I copied this from another site;

-Maryland Fish and Game did a study back during the moratorium, Study found bass between 28-38" produced the most and healthiest eggs. In addition they found that the majority of fish under 28" were males and males could and would service up to 10 cows a season
This study was the basis for setting the coast wide size limit when moratorium was lifted to 38" and than reduced to 34" for several years. One other thing I remember from that study was very few males grow beyond 36" and die off a natural death.

Now i can't prove that because i dont have the study itself, but if that information is accurate, we as a whole really need to think about the fish we keep on the regular and shrug off like its no big deal.
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  #102  
Old 01-25-2010, 11:41 PM
Kroc Kroc is offline
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Default Re: Killing the Cow...

How do you think striped bass fisherman would feel about regulations similar to the red drum? For those not familiar I think it is only legal to keep fish between 18 and 26 inches. Applying these regulations to the striper would ensure that no cows would ever be killed.
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  #103  
Old 01-26-2010, 09:54 AM
pgithens pgithens is offline
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Default Re: Killing the Cow...

Quote:
Originally Posted by oystercracker View Post
I hope the fish are like this thread... refusing to die no matter what! Has been a good topic for sure. I've been fishing more than 40 years and only recently for stripers. In all my years and thousands of fish caught, I've been fortunate to hook most of them in the lip or jaw. I've had my share of gut hooks too and have run the gambit from cutting the line and hoping the hook dissolved or was later expelled, to trying to remove it at detriment of the fish. Most of my experience has been in small ponds of lower Delaware - one advantage to that scenario is that you usually know when a fish doesn't survive because within minutes after release, when you have moved on and been fishing other water, you hear the same injured fish back on top, flopping around and on inspection, you find it to be the fish that you tried to save... and it dies.

On the other argument about playing fish too long and putting them in harms way via tissue acid buildup etc... I have to wonder about this because never in all my 40 years plus bass fishing fresh water, has a normally hooked and fought bass or fish that I caught and released, come up flopping or die. My brother and I have taken photos, videos and admired such fish all we wanted and never have I seen a single one of them up and dying later. In my experience fish are tough.

We've caught stripers from the surf over the last couple years too while fishing for blues. A couple times we actually hooked and landed a previously injured fish. On inspection they appeared to have been hurt in fights or caught in net webbing etc but I can tell you that in every case, the fish were making a comeback and healing. Of course we released them quickly and got them back on their way.

We're all in this for our own reasons and one man's definition of "fun" is different from the next. Same is true in other sports like tennis. I play with a variety of skill level players etc and the spectrum of definitions of "fun" runs from having to win at all costs (or it's no fun) to not caring about winning at all (and as a result, losing most of the time). Striper fishing is like that. Give me 100 striper anglers and I'l give you 100 slightly different definitions of "fun" while striper fishing or goals for the sport. Some like to keep drags light and let fish run and others like to crank the fish in from A to B in the shortest possible time as seen in bass fishing tournaments on tv - that doesn't look like much "fun" to me and in fact, seems counter productive. You spend a lot of time and money fishing and when you finally succeed and get something on that makes it all worth while, why would you rush it and have a 30 second experience that might have been a minute or longer? Whatever bend you are on this, no one can judge you because your notion of "fun" is different from theres.

We're all in the same sport and enjoying it for a wide variety of reasons. Hopefully, the fish are generally ok after release, regardless of fast fight or letting them run. Fresh water experience tells me that most fish are ok after release... thankfully, the animal kingdom is very tough and hardy.
Oystercracker . . . this is an excellent post and reflects my sentiments as well. I'll start right off by saying that the success or failure of the striper population does not rest on my decision to keep or release the few stripers I catch every year, I have been moving more and more toward becoming a C&R fisherman forr all species I fish every year.

While I understand the theory and concerns of those decrying torture and release, and that is could kill the fish, I personally think this is highly unlikely. Perhaps a few mistreated fish may die but a resposnsibly hooked, and released fish has, IMO, as much chance to survive as the many fish I've pulled out with sever bite marks, little or no tail, etc. This is born out by the return of billfish, redfish, snook, even stripers themselves. In fact tagging programs are evidence of the success of the C&R fishery. Additionally, there would be some pretty bassless lakes around the country.

Last spring I had a couple of pretty good nights drum fishing and to this day I wish I let all but one fish go. I do like drum fish and appreciated the meat . . . but there was no need for me to keep more then one fish. Gosh . . I hope I never need to fish just for food. That would be REALLY expensive.

My biggest issue is always getting the Missus to throw back fish. She hasn't pulled a fish out of the ocean she doeesn't want to eat . . no matter how many we have. I think I'll use the approach from now on of "You can keep all you want within the law . . as long as YOU fillet them".
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  #104  
Old 01-26-2010, 01:20 PM
FunPhishing FunPhishing is offline
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Default Re: Killing the Cow...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
How do you think striped bass fisherman would feel about regulations similar to the red drum? For those not familiar I think it is only legal to keep fish between 18 and 26 inches. Applying these regulations to the striper would ensure that no cows would ever be killed.
Your right this would save the cows, however, the amount of cows over time would diminish because too many young bass would be kept. It's a lot easier to catch a fish 18-26 inches than it is to catch a 50lber, therefore, A LOT more fish would be kept. You have to remember some people fish with the attitude that if the law says they can keep 1, or even 2, 18-26 inch fish per angler, per day, you can bet your bottom dollar they are going to keep that many fish almost every time they go out. Some people feel that if they don't go home with "something", they did't get anything out of their trip. Also, a big majority of the back bay resident striper's fall into the 18-26 inch range and if people can catch and keep them all season long, i would say within a couple of years the residential bass population would fade off drastically. This is just one mans opinion, but i think one fish between 22-30" per angler, per trip would satisfy the "i need to eat everything i catch" crowd and the "save the fishery and release everything" crowd.
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  #105  
Old 02-08-2010, 05:26 PM
Jon006 Jon006 is offline
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Default Re: Killing the Cow...

"This is just one mans opinion, but i think one fish between 22-30" per angler, per trip would satisfy the "i need to eat everything i catch" crowd and the "save the fishery and release everything" crowd."

I hope one day we see tighter limits like that.
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