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  #151  
Old 01-18-2004, 06:59 AM
hayswalt hayswalt is offline
 
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This info is also from the above link:

Why Doesn’t Recreational Management Work?

The best way to get at this question is to first discuss how recreational fishing is managed. The primary management tools are creel and size limits and closed seasons. Creel limits regulate the number of a particular species of fish an angler may have in his or her possession. Size limits regulate the size of fish of a particular species an angler may possess. Generally, minimum size limits are used, but sometimes minimum and maximum size or "slot" limits are put in place. During closed seasons, the angler can’t possess a particular species. It’s critically important to note here that these are all controls on possession. An angler can catch any number of fish of a particular species out of season. An angler can catch any number of fish smaller (or larger, if a slot limit is in place) than the size limit for that particular species. And an angler can catch any number of fish of a particular species, regardless of the creel limit. It should go without saying, though it unfortunately doesn’t, that catching fish, no matter how careful the angler is and no matter how optimal other conditions are, involves killing fish. So there are effective - or at least as effective as the good will of millions of recreational anglers and the policing efforts of a handful of enforcement agents can make them - controls on the possession of particular species of fish, but none whatsoever on the catching or killing of those same species.
Some recreational anglers are undoubtedly "expert" enough to target particular species of fish. But when a hunk of bait or a lure is dangled in front of a hungry fish, if that fish is big enough to eat it, it’s going to give it a go, and it’s going to do so regardless of whether it’s in season or not, whether it’s large (or small) enough to be legal, and regardless of how many other fish of that species the angler already has in possession. And anglers tend to keep on fishing, particularly because as a group they are mistakenly convinced that they can "catch and release" fish forever with no negative consequences for the fish. Recreational fishing regulations manage the number of fish an angler can possess, they have absolutely no effect in regulating the number of fish an angler can catch or the number of fish an angler can kill.

Exacerbating what seems to be an already dismal situation is the fact that there is no limit on the number of recreational anglers who are allowed to fish. One of the major tools used in managing commercial fisheries is limited entry. This means that the number of participants in a particular fishery is determined based on the productive capacity of that fishery and subsequently it isn’t exceeded. New entrants are not permitted into the fishery unless others leave or the stock improves. While limited entry was, and in many instances still is, a particularly contentious issue, in one form or another it is in effect in all of the commercial fisheries under federal regulation. But it’s not used in any recreational fisheries (although the number of permitted "for hire" recreational vessels is limited in a few). Some states have instituted recreational fishing licenses at nominal cost, but when their cost is considered relative to the total expense of salt water angling, they can hardly serve as an effective disincentive. So one question seems unavoidable. When it comes to recreational fishing management, what is being restricted?

Fisheries managers - and recreational anglers - argue that creel and season limits are effective in managing recreational fisheries because they provide disincentives to the fishermen and women whose interest is bringing home a bucket or ice chest filled with fish. They are partially right. But the present summer flounder situation seems a good indication of exactly how "partially" right they are. There are stringent size, creel and season limits in this fishery, and as far as we know there isn’t any significant catch and release of this species. Yet the recreational fishing mortality is far beyond the court mandated level.

No one in the commercial fishing industry would argue that catching fish for pleasure or for personal consumption isn’t a valid use of our fisheries resources. In fact, we look forward to the day when we can join with the recreational fishing industry in supporting sound, science-based fisheries and marine ecosystem management that benefits every U.S. citizen, including commercial and recreational fishermen and seafood consumers. However, recreational angling is a large and increasing source of fishing mortality, particularly considering the growing popularity of catch and release, that at this time is virtually unrecognized by the public and woefully uncontrolled by the managers.* And the loudest voices clamoring for increasing restrictions on commercial harvesters are the so-called "conservationists" who are in reality recreational anglers or their spokesmen looking for a larger slice of the fishing pie. The commercial fishing industry has been carrying the burden of conservation for years while the recreational angling "conservationists" have been hiding behind their catch and release, we’re only catching ‘em one at a time smokescreen. It’s about time that we start seriously looking at the impacts of recreational angling on our fish stocks and designing management techniques that address recreational fishing mortality as well as commercial.

*Confounding the problem of uncontrolled recreational fishing pressure is the growing reliance of the professional managers on federal Wallop-Breaux funding provided by taxes on recreational fishing and yachting supplies and equipment. Any decrease in the amount of recreational fishing and yachting expenditures would be reflected in a decrease in the Wallop-Breaux accounts that the management agencies depend on ( )

Walt
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  #152  
Old 01-22-2004, 10:51 AM
redliner redliner is offline
 
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The thing thats starting to scare me is Mycobacteriousis, "fish handlers disease". A disease that people who handle lots of fish get and now its estimated that 50-75% of Stripes in the Chesapeake have. Scientists say that the water is warmer than usual, cloudier, has less oxygen and less bait fish. Also a huge swan population is destroying this Striper habitat. Fishing Mass early last spring I caught many diseased fish and my finger became infected. Last year an older man on the Cape actually died from this. THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM !!!! This may impact our great Striper fisherie. Why is no one talking about this? I saw the "Spanish Fly" last weekend and they showed Jose fishing with a guide off of Nantucket catching stripers. Of the 4-5 fish they showed one of them was obviously infected with this disease. It had bloody sores on its eye, back, stomach and tail. The guide reached down into the water, picked it up behing the gills pried his mouth open and retreived the hook. Out of all my seaches on the intenet this is the only forum I could find that even mentioned this problem.

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  #153  
Old 01-22-2004, 10:54 AM
redliner redliner is offline
 
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The thing thats starting to scare me is Mycobacteriousis, "fish handlers disease". A disease that people who handle lots of fish get and now its estimated that 50-75% of Stripes in the Chesapeake have. Scientists say that the water is warmer than usual, cloudier, has less oxygen and less bait fish. Also a huge swan population is destroying this Striper habitat. Fishing Mass early last spring I caught many diseased fish and m
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  #154  
Old 01-22-2004, 11:22 AM
BENTROD BENTROD is offline
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YOUR RIGHT, DISEASED STRIPED BASS... we have hap many topics on this..... WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN IS ,,,, SOON nmfs is going to say they messed up and i BENTROD is going to have to step in and wipe this species off this planet. THIS PROBLEM WE HAVE IS CAUSED BY GREEDY , IGNORANT RECS THAT are try to hord this species and keep IT ALL. IT SPREADS AND THIS IS WHAT IS CREATED

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  #155  
Old 01-22-2004, 11:23 AM
BENTROD BENTROD is offline
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THESE FISH ARE HURTING THE REST OF THE HEALTHY FISH..... THE TIME IS COMING BENTROD OUTBOUND

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  #156  
Old 01-22-2004, 11:24 AM
BENTROD BENTROD is offline
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I TOLD YOU SUPERFLY, BUT YOU DONT WANT TO BELEIVE ME

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  #157  
Old 01-22-2004, 02:57 PM
redliner redliner is offline
 
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I'm all for com + rec fishing. The thing is; we need these bunker to susutain 1 of 3 main breeding grounds. We cant stop global warming, no, its coming either way. Pollutants, well were trying to clean up, (sore subject), but this is 1 of the only things we can control. If the Stripers have more bait they wont have to go as far in to the warm, polluted water to eat, be too closely packed in, and they wont get sick. They desire water temp of 55 deg. If theres lots more bait for them they will stay in deeper waters. Then I think you guys (com)could catch all the healthy Stripers you want.

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  #158  
Old 01-22-2004, 06:20 PM
hayswalt hayswalt is offline
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenainn:
The thing thats starting to scare me is Mycobacteriousis, "fish handlers disease". Sea Ya!


You perhaps didn't search using the correct words- use "bacteria infection"- you'll get many hits including this one I posted on another site in early December:

How prevalent is mycobacteriosis among Chesapeake Bay stripers?
Studies conducted by VIMS scientists from 1999-2001 showed that mycobacteria could be cultured from the spleens of 76% of striped bass recovered from the Chesapeake Bay (Potomac River to Virginia Beach). Seventy-six percent of these infected fish are positive for M. shottsii. M. shottsii is not only the most common species of mycobacteria in striped bass, but typically occurs at much higher densities than any other mycobacterium in co-infections. This means that anglers are more likely to be exposed to M. shottsii than other mycobacterial species. Whether M. shottsii poses a threat to human health is not yet known (see above). A fall 2002 survey of striped bass health in the York, Rappahannock, Potomac, and Nanticoke rivers indicates that mycobacteriosis is present in the fish. (The survey was coordinated by the USGS and involved scientists from VIMS and Maryland.) However, the degree of its prevalence or severity will not be known until the researchers complete their analyses, a process that takes several months. Some fish, especially in the Rappahannock, had skin lesions and some were "skinny" or underweight. Stripers with similar conditions have been observed every year since 1997, starting mainly in the summer months and fall. [top]

Does mycobacteriosis affect other Chesapeake Bay fish species?
According to available data for Chesapeake Bay, the current outbreak of fish mycobacteriosis is limited to striped bass. However, other fish species have not been studied as intensively as striped bass, and many species have not been examined at all. [top]

How might mycobacteriosis be affecting the striped bass population in Chesapeake Bay?
There is insufficient data to determine whether mycobacteriosis will affect the stocks of striped bass in Chesapeake Bay. Anecdotal evidence from fishing tournaments shows that younger stripers (below 24 inches long) are sometimes emaciated yet show no external or internal signs of the disease, whereas older fish (greater than about 24" long) commonly exhibit external lesions and infected internal organs but are otherwise robust and healthy. Thus the relationship between "skinny" bass and mycobacteriosis is presently not clear. [top]

What is the history of mycobacteriosis in Chesapeake Bay?
The occurrence of mycobacteriosis in striped bass (Morone saxatilis) from Chesapeake Bay was first noted by VIMS in 1997. Previous outbreaks of mycobacteriosis in wild striped bass have occurred in Pacific estuaries. Following the Chesapeake Bay outbreak, VIMS scientists isolated a new species of mycobacteria associated with skin and visceral lesions that they named Mycobacterium shottsii. This new species is closely related to M. marinum and M. ulcerans.

It is unknown how long mycobacteria may have been causing disease in Bay striped bass. [top]

What is the focus of mycobacteriosis research at VIMS?
VIMS researchers are working to understand the extent and severity of the disease in Chesapeake Bay striped bass, the environmental conditions in the Bay that influence development of the disease, and potential impacts on striped bass stocks. The VIMS effort is part of a larger cooperative study with investigators from the USGS National Fish Health Research Laboratory in West Virginia, from the Virginia Marine Resource Commission, and from institutions and agencies in Maryland. [top]

How is mycobacteriosis diagnosed in striped bass?
To determine whether a striped bass is infected with mycobacteriosis, researchers must first remove tissue from a fish under sterile conditions. Tissue is typically taken from the spleen, as this is an organ that helps remove bacteria from the blood. The next step is to slice the tissue thinly enough so that a section can be viewed under a light microscope. Staining and other techniques help researchers determine whether any mycobacteria and/or characteristic lesions are present in the fish tissue.

To identify the particular species of bacteria present, the researchers must isolate the bacterial cells from the fish tissue and grow them in pure culture on agar in petri dishes. Because Mycobacterium shottsii, the species predominantly isolated from striped bass with mycobacteriosis, is such a slow-growing organism, it takes at least 2 months to grow a sufficient number of these bacteria for positive identification.

To speed up the identification process, VIMS researchers are using molecular techniques that allow rapid detection of mycobacterial species from small tissue samples. Future development of genetic fingerprinting techniques may aid in rapid identification of the species present. [top]

Walt
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  #159  
Old 01-23-2004, 07:25 AM
redliner redliner is offline
 
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Very interesting Walt, thanks. Next question, what do we do to stop this, stop the spread of this and restore a healthy envirenment to the Chesapeake Bay? B

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  #160  
Old 01-23-2004, 07:31 AM
BENTROD BENTROD is offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenainn:
Very interesting Walt, thanks. Next question, what do we do to stop this, stop the spread of this and restore a healthy envirenment to the Chesapeake Bay? B

Sea Ya!
THE WAY WE SHOULD START IS TO OPEN THE EEZ, GET RID OF FOTE, PUT STRIPED BASS BACK IN N.J COMMS HANDS , AND START HAVING A RESPONSIBLE HARVEST OF STRIPED BASS. this would be a start, we cant let this species grow to numbers never recorded, which is happening now.. there must be balance, and these stripers need to BE HARVESTED, before were going to HAVE TO DESTROY THWE WHOLE CROP- BECAUSE GREED AND INGNORANCE ECT ECT

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  #161  
Old 01-23-2004, 09:21 AM
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SOME
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  #162  
Old 01-23-2004, 09:47 AM
superfly superfly is offline
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quote:
Originally posted by BENTROD:
I TOLD YOU SUPERFLY, BUT YOU DONT WANT TO BELEIVE ME

_BENTROD_




Bentmind, you are an idiot. It has nothing to do with the how large/small striper population is, it is environment issue.

quote:
Originally posted by BENTROD:
... and i BENTROD is going to have to step in and wipe this species off this planet.
_BENTROD_


I truly hope that idiots like you get wiped out off this planet.
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  #163  
Old 01-23-2004, 02:21 PM
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Mr Superfly I'm surprized at you . You and Bent have grown so close .

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  #164  
Old 01-23-2004, 08:43 PM
CATCHnRELEASE
 
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Geez..
Let's be realistic, not "virtual realistic".

The bunker will soon be gone from these parts, as it already has departed from the Chessie...

As most species have departed, etc...etc...

Picker, and Bent, pretty soon...

Why the hell don't we see reality...we believe what we want to...

Gee, no weapons of mass "DECEPTION" In Iraq..

I wonder why I even bother anymore..
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  #165  
Old 01-23-2004, 08:47 PM
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Hi C&R tought week with the youth of the world?

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