Home
 
     HOME     ARTICLES     Frank DAIGNAULT     TROPHY RIGS     CONTENTS     FAQs     FLY FISHING     OFF ROAD 4 X 4     STRIPED BASS    SURFCASTING
 
Click for Daignault Biography Twenty Years Trophy Striper Striper Surf Striper Hot Spots MID-ATLANTIC Striper Hot Spots - NEW ENGLAND Eastern Tides Fly Fishing the Striper Surf
TWENTY YEARS ON THE CAPE - STRIPER SURF - STRIPER HOT SPOTS - THE TROPHY STRIPER
EASTERN TIDES - FLY FISHING THE STRIPER SURF
Welcome to Frank Daignault's "CASTS" - Center for Advanced Studies of Trophy Stripers.
Please be sure to read the Protocol and then join in!
 
 
Go Back   StriperSurf Forums > Main Forums > Ask Frank Daignault

Ask Frank Daignault Frank Daignault is recognized as an authority on surf fishing for striped bass. He is the author of six books and hundreds of magazine articles. Frank is a member of the Outdoor Writers of America and lectures throughout the Northeast.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-06-2006, 01:48 PM
mattg9979 mattg9979 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 48
Default Fishing Water with Current

We all know that if you want to catch big fish you have to find where the current is. So my question is what direction do you want to fish it and how deep in the water column. I do a lot of fishing at the breechways where you let the current bring the lure out and you retrieve the lure against the current. I catch lots of fish this way. However you go to a rivers and fish it and almost never catch fish going against the current.

What about points when the current is flowing say west to east. Do you cast and retrieve straight across or up the currrent and retrieve with the current? What is genereally the most productive? Then what types of lures would you say and what part of the water column would you focus on. Lets try and narrow this down and say night fishing these spots.

I hope I didn't open to many variables here. Just would like to know what is the first thing you would try in these situations.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-07-2006, 05:34 PM
Frank Daignault's Avatar
Frank Daignault Frank Daignault is offline
Writer, Hunter, Surfcaster
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 30,458
Default Re: Fishing Water with Current

Great question, Matt. When a subject has a lot of variables, it is juicier for readers who want to focus on something that is basstechnical for them to learn. Here at the Center for Advanced Study of Trophy Stripers (CASTS) it is our mission to explore every facet of bassology. In so doing, they have brought in the smartest flippin surfcaster to have ever put his hand on a girl's knee -- me.

All the things you mention should be explored when dealing with current. Where the current is greatest is a definate; where it subsides; the edges of the current where a preditor can hold easily yet draw from the advantages of a lot of water going past. An eddie, where current swirls inside a hook. some outflows have sweet spots where a dominant lineside can hold. This can be a rock that interrupts the flow allowing it to hold easily. These usaully have a place of neutral flow where all the water forces balance each other off so that the bass can hang out without expending too much of its energy. For that reason, if you ever catch a striper in a place, you should go back there because it will be popular with them. Bein as they are females, they talk.

Penetration of the water column, a subject that has made me famous in circles whre penetration is given due consideration, is something that I have addressed many times. I will expound upon this tomorrow.
__________________
Frank
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-11-2006, 10:17 AM
Frank Daignault's Avatar
Frank Daignault Frank Daignault is offline
Writer, Hunter, Surfcaster
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 30,458
Default Re: Fishing Water with Current

The faster the water, the more likely the bass are laying way deep on the bottom. Often it is not enough to just use something that is metal to get deep. Things you can do to get down fast, and speed is important for lengthening the deep drift, is to cast upstream, delay your anti-reverse closure as well as your swing. usually, the deeper you have to go, the shorter is your productive drift. For the sake of addressing all issues here, the bucktail jig or crippled herring are best for getting deep. Fly fishers can and should use type IV extra-fast sink lines, probably as shooting heads or they can option a lead-core shooter. Once waters begin to slack then less demanding, less extreme, measures can be put into the arsenal like loaded plugs or even live baits cast upriver and allowed to tumble past the angler. A sinkered bait is only useful where you know that the bottom is not all fouled with junk.
__________________
Frank
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-11-2006, 01:38 PM
ragman's Avatar
ragman ragman is offline
Moderator,Team SS 04-08
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
Posts: 16,237
Default Re: Fishing Water with Current

Frank,
Can the same be said of a rip running from the beach? I know there is not the water flow of an inlet in this instance,but have seen some pretty strong rips form from the beach...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-12-2006, 11:10 AM
mattg9979 mattg9979 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 48
Default Re: Fishing Water with Current

So here was the situation yesterday. Bucktails did not work. I forgot the crippled herring. What worked were danny trolling lures in yellow and storm shad. Problem here is after you casted and started retrieving your line is already half way down the river. We couldn't get into a position below the damn. Current was too fast but if we did I think it would have been more productive.


What is the best colors to use in mucky water caused by the current? Will bass still hold in this water say during a storm?
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-12-2006, 11:13 AM
mattg9979 mattg9979 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 48
Default Re: Fishing Water with Current

Forgot to mention it but would it be worth it to fish an early nor easter that may hit on wednesday night this week?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-12-2006, 12:54 PM
JFigliuolo JFigliuolo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Brooklyn CT
Posts: 228
Default Re: Fishing Water with Current

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg9979
Forgot to mention it but would it be worth it to fish an early nor easter that may hit on wednesday night this week?

Where I fish? without question, the beginning right thru. For me, where I fish, fishing is best on the leading edge an during a storm. sucks right after.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-12-2006, 01:01 PM
mattg9979 mattg9979 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 48
Default Re: Fishing Water with Current

I know fishing a storm is good later in the year like sept and october but was not sure this early in the season. Maybe I will have to get out there. Do you fish the same type of area like rocks or do you focus on beaches or do you focus on points?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-12-2006, 05:24 PM
akoller's Avatar
akoller akoller is offline
SS/Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 2,318
Default Re: Fishing Water with Current

When fishing current it seems to me there are 3 stages of the drift. One is the upcurrent cast when it is sinking, the second is the main swing right in front of you and the third is when it moves away from you. I am finding that the hits come in the second phase - when it is in full swing.

My suspicion is that this is when the lure has both the most action and is actually moving with the current - which the bass are looking for - as opposed to the third, downcurrent stage when it might still look nice but its not moving as much.

Frank do you agree? If your bucktail is downcurrent and you are twitching it I feel it is not as good as in full swing. But I am relatively new to this whole jigging thing.

Another thing about tins. The flash works amazingly well for me at night in a well lit area when the bass are feeding. This year the deadly dick seems to be the ticket.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-13-2006, 03:44 PM
Frank Daignault's Avatar
Frank Daignault Frank Daignault is offline
Writer, Hunter, Surfcaster
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 30,458
Default Re: Fishing Water with Current

All these situations are different and each run of moving water takes on its own set of conditions which are dealt with individually. It is also a case of extremes where an ocean current on a beach does not hump like an outflow. Somebody said something about "twitching" a bucktail. It it seems to work for you, fine. But I never twitched or jigged a jig. Just let the flippin thing swing under tension. Very few outflows are slow enough for a plug, even a loaded one. Of course where you are feeding the plug so far out that the current subsides the plug will work as in the ********** of Rhode Island where they will kill me if I tell ya. I did forget to mention the shads with lead, which is unusual for a smarty pants like me.
__________________
Frank
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-13-2006, 05:03 PM
mattg9979 mattg9979 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 48
Default Re: Fishing Water with Current

Yes they would kill you for saying it.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-14-2006, 05:21 PM
Frank Daignault's Avatar
Frank Daignault Frank Daignault is offline
Writer, Hunter, Surfcaster
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 30,458
Default Re: Fishing Water with Current

yes, and the ghost of Walter Crystock, who provided us all with striper sandwiches 40 years ago would come back and put little holes in my condoms and forwarn husbands of my impending visit. As martha likes to say, It would not be a good thing.
__________________
Frank
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-15-2006, 04:45 PM
Fish Tank Fish Tank is offline
SS/Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA
Posts: 3,857
Default Re: Fishing Water with Current

Frequently while biding my time until I can get to my haunts, my thoughts are given over to mental images of moving water areas. Both to lower my heart rate as well explore facets of the water I may not have noticed the last time there because I was to busy focusing on my presentation. Given all the time you have spent, primarily with the flyrod, targeting outflows, how frequently will you get takes shortly after the cast is laid out, say with in a second or two of it being on the water? For instance, you're working outgoing water, about an hour before morning's sweet light time, the night's last hurrah,the current starting to taper off in velocity, say 2\3 of the way into the outgoing phase. It's a relatively shallow area say maybe a depth of 8' at most at high water. Now you press home the point that the strike zone is about an arc of 45-90 deg. give or take. The current is such that an upcurrent cast isn't necessary to get down in the column. Also you may have an inviting seam in the water, say where the glassy surface of an eddie meets the wavy flow of the main current. So given you work the fly on the swing, and the water's depth is such that it's concieveable for a fish to come off the bottom to take in the upper level of the column, is it a frequent occurance for you to get hit right after the fly hits the water? Also, if you would, substitute a large swimmer of choice into the scenerio. The reason for this is, do you feel there is a spooking factor involved in a large plug crashing into the water above a holding striper, under the cover of darkness, or are they immune to the commotion created by the plug landing? Again, my primary expierience is with trout, and many times I've seen guys with inline spinners drop a cast right into the rise form of a trout sipping emergant dipterans. That fish is down for an hour. So is there a correlation regarding the ability for a bass in shallower moving water to be spooked, like a trout, by a plug or metal hitting the water directly above its head?

Just a few things I wonder about when scanning the water for the target of my cast. Do bass get spooky like trout when in thin water at night?

This will enhance some ideas I have for this coming weekend's trip!!!

Thanks Frank!!!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-16-2006, 12:08 PM
Frank Daignault's Avatar
Frank Daignault Frank Daignault is offline
Writer, Hunter, Surfcaster
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 30,458
Default Re: Fishing Water with Current

Yes, I see bass as spooky like trout. We used to fish an area where the bass often panned for sandeels where the last wave broke and walking up to within say 20 feet they would flush out of the shallows with a loud pop. However, they were usually only about 20 feet straight out and would take a small sandeel plug. We all know that sound travels well through the water and I believe that the grinding of your boots in bottom sand will flush them off. As for the splash of the plug, I don't know what you could do to prevent that except maybe cast above them some so that it drifts quietly into their field of view. I think all fish and game engage in forms of excitement for various reasons. Therefore, some sounds may actually evoke a positive response.

Dipterans? Is that some kind of foreigner?
__________________
Frank
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-16-2006, 01:14 PM
Fish Tank Fish Tank is offline
SS/Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA
Posts: 3,857
Default Re: Fishing Water with Current

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Daignault
Dipterans? Is that some kind of foreigner?
Two winged insects ie, mosquitos, midges, chironomids; the small stuff in hook sizes ranging between #18 - #22.

At any rate, I often wondered how spooky the bass are. There's times, in areas of current that I target, where +/-5' left or right makes a big difference in drift, especially when confronted with eddying water at my feet. So having a weighted fly fall into the water, where I expect my take, may spook the fish. Oh well, we'll see I guess.

Have a great one Frank!!!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2016 StriperSurf.com, All Rights Reserved